Barebow/Bowhunter Recurve Equipment Advice

[Macbow]

Hopefully some of you barebow recurve or bowhunter shooters can pitch in with some advice.
I'm looking to try one of the above competition styles so looking for a suitable bow. I currently shoot AFBs simply because of aesthetic appeal but I'm getting increasingly frustrated with wooden arrows. I own a bunch of AFBs and they all shoot better with carbons. By adjusting point weight I can use the same set of carbons with most of them. I have found great arrows but comp rules forbid me using them. Basically, that's why I'm looking at a new shooting category.
I notice in the USA the trad/3D scene is being shaken up by short metal riser bows using ILF limbs, such as the highly acclaimed DAS Kinetic bows or Hoyt Gamemasters converted to accept ILF limbs. I'm sold on the positive attributes of a metal riser and I like the idea of being able to fine tune the bow as well as the arrows.
Any thoughts on the Samick Mizar with the WW Sidewinder limbs? I have never tried one and never even seen one outside of the Bowsports catalogue but it seems for under £250 I could get a decent performing bow at 42lbs and 64" in length. It also looks quite sleek and simple.
For a wood riser ie more trad looking bow I'd have to shell out a lot more money and right now only a 5 number lottery win is going to get me a new Border Black Douglas.
My main concern is getting a barebow sight picture from a 23" long riser, which seems huge. I use a mix of gap system, riser positions and instinctive to aim and a corner of the mouth anchor. I plan to use 3 fingers under but may end up reverting to my usual mediterranean loose. I may well end up sticking with AFB but want to give the recurve a serious go without breaking the bank just yet.
Any other bows/limbs I should look at?

[robtattoo]

For a nice short riser, the Mizar is probably very hard to beat, value wise. Our club chairman shoots one (very well too!) admittedly with sights, but loves it to bits! I shouldn't imagine the sight picture will be to hard to fathom out, but you may have to revert to shooting more instinctively for a while, as a gap picture will be a nightmare to get! Why not stick with the stick, still shooting your carbons & enter in barebow? I often shoot aluminiums from my hybrid, in barebow & do surprisingly well against the modern recurves (better than most, if truth be told) If you switch to shooting 3-under, even with woodies, you'll have to shoot barebow, regardless. Your shots go a hell of a lot lower, for the same aim-point, when shooting 3-under. I tried it for a while, but I was finding my aim ended up as point-on at 30yds rather than 50. You don't want to be in Bowhunter, full stop. You've got the compound boys to deal with then! If you keep your eyes on EBay, you'll often find cheaper metal risered bows there mate. If you're deadly serious, go for the Hoyt Gamemaster over the Samick. There's not too much price difference & it is a far, far better bow for what you want it for. It has a much shorter sight window, making things much more familiar. Don't forget, though, you'll need to factor in the price of a new set of arras. Recurve & longbows spine out completely different for a given draw-weight. Hope this helps Malc!

ps. Tom Rhude says 'Hi'

[Macbow]

Cheers Rob! Much appreciated. The Gamemaster is definitely one bow I'm looking at. If I could buy the riser on its own I would along with the ILF conversion kit. I did think about using my flatbow but if I'm going to try a change I thought I'd go the whole hog as they say.
If anyone else has any thoughts feel free to chip in.

[bkupris]

Most target risers shoot very strange without all the stabilisers etc. they are designed to have on them. Might want to try a few first if possible, easier said than done though :-( I tried it with my EXFEEL and KG1 and I had to duck a few times, top limb rotates towards my head :-0

[JohnK]

I find it partly comes down to a question of your pressure point on the bow grip. I can make the top limb on my Intrepid kick back towards my head if I have a pressure point low on the grip, but when I focus on shifting the pressure point up by sliding my hand up a little higher in the grip, the bow stays straight.

[bkupris]

Good point JohnK. It's a bit redundant for Macbow considering he is not looking to break the bank but seems to me there are a few risers out there that are designed for barebow? I am thinking the BEST or Spig risers but not sure about that?

[JohnK]

Yes there are, and I'm considering getting one next year. The Intrepid shoots well, but I'd like a heavier riser, especially one I could easily add weights to like the Best or Spiggy risers.

[bkupris]

Hi Macbow

I just checked and the Arco Sport Spigarelli 650 is supposedly designed as a barebow riser. I can't tell you if it is any good or not. Sells for around £270

[Karen]

If you're serious about shooting barebow some of the best for this are the Greenhorn bows - Many of the Field archers swear by them as they are designed specifically for this. The classic design of the Victory has been proved and can be balanced by attaching extra weight to the lower part - I use a Greenhorn Sirius, but this is still fairly new and you're into some serious money here so unless you're shooting at a high level I doubt its worth the extra.
They have international limb fittings so you can use limbs as required.
I find them all very smooth to shoot (if it kicks back you're doing something wrong !) though I don't know if you'd find one second hand as not many people will part with them once they have them.
Technique - for competition at a higher level most barebow shooters will stringwalk .
Three fingers under and vary the distance up and down from the nock according to the distance to the target. Point on the target until maximum distance at nock, then gap shooting above that.
For me point on is only 35 metres as I shoot only 30 pounds max draw weight, but for the shooting I do this is fairly successful and I can outshoot an overbowed macho bloke on most occasions! Don't overbow yourself (a common problem when changing from longbow) as you need to be able to hold the draw for longer whilst you aim for better accuracy ( These bows don't lose their power if you hold the draw like a longbow would, so you can aim for several seconds before you have to release)
Barebow shooting is very rewarding, but like anything else you need to listen to all the advice, think it through and then work out your own way of applying it. It still takes practice, just like anything else, but don't be afraid to try a totally different technique - sometimes a complete change is better than trying to adapt your longbow technique to suit.
But if your distance estimation is rubbish then work on that first - no good training at all the distances if you can't decide how far away the target is when you get to the peg !
One last thought - watch the Spigarelli risers as some of them aren't legal in the Barebow classes.

[JohnK]

The 650 is very highly thought of by many European barebow shooters. Spigarelli discontinued it for a while but brought it back due to popular demand. I reckon I'll either get the 650 or the Best Zenit BB version.