clickers

[John (OSF)]

Originally Posted by hooktonboy

Okay, Okay!! From your options (rather than mine) and if I was advising someone else (rather than pleasing myself) - I would advise "when their form is consistent".No real point to it otherwise.

y

So that's 3 of us...any more want to get on the wee gnas green bus?

[Little Miss Purple]

I didn't get my clicker until I was more consistant

[hooktonboy]

Originally Posted by Little Miss Purple

compound... he can get the scores with that

[ASW1973]

I think that there is some confusion as to what a clicker is for which leads to its delay in use. The first miss-aprehension is that the clicker is an adjunct that can be added later, sadly no. Let us consider the idea that if you can not use a clicker then you are not shooting "properly, secondly this idea of draw length "settling in". The only reason that draw length may vary is because a clicker is not being used and draw length should be assesed and set within the first dozen arrows shot. At its most basic a clicker makes the archer NOT drift forward before loose (a common error that is prevalent amongst those not using a clicker). Using a clicker is based around alignement and good technique, so what is the point in not driving this technique forward from the outset...... by using a clicker.

[John (OSF)]

There's no doubt that you are far more knowledgeable ASW (as is NDY) so I 'am' listening, the thing that I find hardest to uinderstand is where the time comes from to try and set-up a beginner to shoot with a clicker, as in the early stages some will not draw to their face and others draw behind their ears no matter what you try and do.

Maybe that's what the problem is in my case, I hammer in range safey and show them basic form with minimum of equipment (as it's fairest timewise to the others). To introduce a clicker I think would really have to be in a one2one situation
It may be that the way forward is to try and produce 'archers' from a beginners course rather than 'safe raw material' that can 'group' at 18M, of which a small percentage may become an archer later

Maybe we need a 'new' course called 'introduction to archery'

I've found this thread interesting and thanks to NDY for starting it

[TJ Mason]

Originally Posted by ASW1973

...At its most basic a clicker makes the archer NOT drift forward before loose (a common error that is prevalent amongst those not using a clicker).

I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary - archers who collapse when the clicker drops, so their draw hands shoot forward before loose. Then very often they'll flutter the draw hand around so their fingers are touching the back of the neck, and they convince themselves that they had a nice follow-through. And I've seen plenty of archers without a clicker who don't have any such collapse or forward loose.
Alignment is key to avoiding a collapse or forward loose. That can most certainly be taught without a clicker.

[John (OSF)]

Also seen loads of 'crabbing' as they try to get through the clicker followed by a very slow contrived pointless 'joke' follow through. It's ludicrous...maybe we should be trying to find a way to include the clicker after all?
If we did, then the ratio would have to drop and/or the course time be extended imo, as I know the way we run the courses up here at the moment couldn't cope with the extra time and equipment demands

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by John (OSF)

There's no doubt that you are far more knowledgeable ASW so I 'am' listening, the thing that I find hardest to uinderstand is where the time comes from to try and set-up a beginner to shoot with a clicker, as in the early stages some will not draw to their face and others draw behind their ears no matter what you try and do.

Spot on.
Its easier said than done. We are all experienced archers and we understand the importance of introducing a clicker in the early stages, but in practice its not that easy. Beginners will have all manner of.. unique interpretations of seemingly simple instructions and demonstrations.

ASW, have you successfully acheived this in normal, practical conditions; eg. beginners course day one, 30-40 beginners, 4:1 ratio of beginners to instructors, with kit commonly available to average clubs? who, if anyone, has ever acheived this with good results, or ever could?

[ASW1973]

rhys has a document i wrote on how to run structured novice training and what is looked for in a university setting, i have taught clicker use to groups of 8 students in a short session regularly and they have all left the session using the clicker. on a one to one basis i always teach archers to use clicker within half an hour of them starting.
so chris in answer to your question it is not difficult it is all about how you teach. I agree that it is not possible in some cases because the instructors are not capable of seeing that individual differences are not as acceptable as people would like them to be. it is just about a structured training regime that novices fit into not fitting the structure to novices

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by ASW1973

rhys has a document i wrote on how to run structured novice training and what is looked for in a university setting, i have taught clicker use to groups of 8 students in a short session regularly and they have all left the session using the clicker. on a one to one basis i always teach archers to use clicker within half an hour of them starting.
so chris in answer to your question it is not difficult it is all about how you teach. I agree that it is not possible in some cases because the instructors are not capable of seeing that individual differences are not as acceptable as people would like them to be. it is just about a structured training regime that novices fit into not fitting the structure to novices

Fair enough. Are you actually talking about rank beginners though? It takes us half an hour to sort ~40 beginners into lefties or righties, and get them kitted up... and we are not all you

I am about as uncompromising as it gets with regard to teaching good technique, but our other coaches are just too nice...

Id like to take a look at that article.