Crusty gnas dress code - bottoms

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Legolaand

I didn't vote on this as we seem to have overlooked that you can now shoot in "Club Colours" provided that you have registered them with the GNAS. My club has red polo shirts with gold sleeves with black trousers etc.
This means we can shoot in either black or white or green! trousers/shorts.
Personally I think it looks smart, if I say so myself and it brightens up the line. Green and white is OK if that's your bag but I prefer a bit of colour. The juniors also voted to adopt the same colours so we give a united club image.

The club colours issue only relates to the colour of the top. Black trousers would not be permitted and would results in your being excluded from any GNAS tournament.

Originally Posted by Tarkwin

The dress code as it stands applies at National or above record level shoots, though often any competition you attend will stipulate that the GNAS dress code applies.

As I have pointed out in an earlier thread, the dress code rule is merely highlighting it's importance at records status events. The rule does not specifically exclude non record status events. The rule appearing in the rules of shooting means that unless specifically excluded by a statement of the like "Does not apply at non record status events" then it applies at all tournaments. It merely dictates to a judges the seriousness of the transgression, and whilst the rule about not being permitted to compete does not exclude non record status events, it is an action which at a non record status event would be rarley applied. However if the competitor is completly flouting the rules, then even at a non record status event, their clothing could be deemed innappropriate and asked to leave.

[wingate_52]

Too many greens, all white!

[greydog]

People invest alot of their time and money in persueing this sport and not just on a personal level, many are very active in promoting the sport at grass roots level, encouraging beginners, putting on shoots, keeping the clubs running etc.........these are clearly people who are more than capable of dressing themselves, so why they we still being told what to wear !

Get rid of greens and whites and allow clubs, or more importantly, the members who comprise those clubs, decide their club colours, tops and bottoms...........it's long overdue

[Tarkwin]

Originally Posted by Judge

As I have pointed out in an earlier thread, the dress code rule is merely highlighting it's importance at records status events. The rule does not specifically exclude non record status events. The rule appearing in the rules of shooting means that unless specifically excluded by a statement of the like "Does not apply at non record status events" then it applies at all tournaments.

This is where I get confused, as indicated earlier the rule states

"Members of the Society shooting and officiating at tournaments granted National or World Record Status by GNAS are required to wear the accepted dress of the society as detailed below."

To me this implies (or infers - I'm never sure which) that it is only at National or World record status shoots that we *have* to wear the GNAS approved colours.

The rule as it reads does not specifically exclude or include any tournament which is not granted National or World record status.

If the organisers of a non-National or World record status tournament stipulate that competitors must abide by this dress code that is their choice, they do not have to do so, but many/most choose to do so.

If however the rule is open to interpretation that we must wear a combination of Green/White and or registered club colours, are we not one step away from being required to practice/shoot at all times in colour schemes laid down in the rules of shooting?

I'm not trying to be awkward, I just don't understand how the rule reads one way but is meant to read another.

T.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by tarkwin

This is where I get confused, as indicated earlier the rule states

"Members of the Society shooting and officiating at tournaments granted National or World Record Status by GNAS are required to wear the accepted dress of the society as detailed below."

To me this implies (or infers - I'm never sure which) that it is only at National or World record status shoots that we *have* to wear the GNAS approved colours.

The rule as it reads does not specifically exclude or include any tournament which is not granted National or World record status.

If the organisers of a non-National or World record status tournament stipulate that competitors must abide by this dress code that is their choice, they do not have to do so, but many/most choose to do so.

If however the rule is open to interpretation that we must wear a combination of Green/White and or registered club colours, are we not one step away from being required to practice/shoot at all times in colour schemes laid down in the rules of shooting?

I'm not trying to be awkward, I just don't understand how the rule reads one way but is meant to read another.

T.

Hi Tarkwin,

I am not meaning to get at anyone. The only way to read the rule book is that every rule applies at all tournaments unless there is an exclusion. Otherwise you get into the situation of arguments that things do not apply at various standards of tournament.

I have heard similar arguments over the removal of scopes from the line. People will grumble when they are told at a york or hereford to remove their scope, but at a non record status they can be almost apopleptic. This is yet another rule that does not say that the rule does not apply at non record status shoots but it is interpreted that it does not apply at non record status events.

In essence, the rules of shooting govern all competitive tournament shooting, dress code included. Generally, the higher the status of the competition, the more rigid we become in enforcing the rules. Are we saying that a non record status event is not important enough for the rules of shooting to be applied? Does this mean that the winner of a non record status event might as well gone to the local fairground and spent the day shooting to win teddy bears? The rules of shooting govern fairness to all competitors. If we start to apply some rules and not others at some tournaments, the rules will quickly become invalid for all tournaments, or indeed used as a tool to promote unfairness.

I must say that I do not like the dress code rules, and hate having to adjudicate someones clothing. I can also agree that the rule is rather ambiguous. But I look at it this way, greater than 80% of the tournament I officiate at are record status of some level or other. This would mean that anyone shooting comptitively must have the appropriate clothing, or will need it in the future, why is there this much fuss over whether it should be worn at non record status or not? Isn't it easier to just turn up in GNAS dress at all competitions?

Maybe for the rules revision for 2008, everyone who dislikes the current dress code should raise an item on the GNAS AGM, and turn up to vote at the AGM. The rules are written and agreed by the archers. It is said that whenever a request for comment about rule changes is sent out, there are very few responses. It is taken by those who write the rules that the lack of comment signals agreement. The rules are changeable by the archers if you ALL act together. If you want a rule change, get together and write to GNAS en masse. Better still, arrange a petition and take it to tournament, making sure your wording is clear, ie no dress code, except that modesty must be preserved? If you can get a couple of thousand people to contact GNAS in regard to the dress code, they cannot ignore you.

[Thunk]

Originally Posted by Judge

Maybe for the rules revision for 2008, everyone who dislikes the current dress code should raise an item on the GNAS AGM, and turn up to vote at the AGM. The rules are written and agreed by the archers. It is said that whenever a request for comment about rule changes is sent out, there are very few responses. It is taken by those who write the rules that the lack of comment signals agreement. The rules are changeable by the archers if you ALL act together. If you want a rule change, get together and write to GNAS en masse. Better still, arrange a petition and take it to tournament, making sure your wording is clear, ie no dress code, except that modesty must be preserved? If you can get a couple of thousand people to contact GNAS in regard to the dress code, they cannot ignore you.

Except for the fact that, despite paying subs to GNAS (Compulsorily collected with our club fees) and being given a GNAS Membership Card, we are not allowed to vote! In an age when our soldiers are dying in the dust in an attempt to bring 'democracy' to a foreign country that probably doesn't want it, it is a complete nonsense that organisations like GNAS can operate this archaic and autocratic system where we - the members - are not to be trusted with a vote as to what we should wear, but treated merely as supplicants to be humoured or ignored as they wish!

Having been asked to leave the shooting line in my first ever tournament because my shirt was the wrong shade of green (washed too often), I have never since taken part in a tournament outside my own club. Many have made me look stupid in my life, but I make sure that nobody except myself has the privilege of doing it twice!

[whisky]

I think this has all been said before?

I have the pleasure(?) of shooting at the same club as Mike and Ann that edit Archery OK and she has mentioned to me that people may be grumbling amongst themselves about the dress rules but few are writing in to the magazine or contacting GNAS about it. I have expressed my views that the current situation is half baked and suits no one and I don’t think they’d necessarily disagree, though that’s for them to comment. I just think that it is stereotypical for apathy to rule with most British people when it comes to voicing their opinions.

Perhaps GNAS wrote the government’s original policy on smoking in pubs as that was just as ####-eyed?

As for having to wait til 2008 for a change, well that’s typical and about sums up GNAS!!!!!!

This topic rears its head frequently on this forum. The main gripe seams to centre around the green/white issue. Why don’t we have a poll to reflect this, possibly should GNAS have gone the whole hog and introduced club colours for tops and bottoms and/or do away with greens/whites. If significant people were to vote then could one of the moderators write in to AUK ‘on behalf of members’ giving the details, expressing a collective view?

Else what about storming Lilleshall at the weekend and laying siege until the rules change. I’m available, anyone else??

[Dave]

Originally Posted by whisky

If significant people were to vote then could one of the moderators write in to AUK ‘on behalf of members’ giving the details, expressing a collective view?

We had a poll a short time ago as to whether AIUK should actively lobby GNAS regarding colours. Iirc it was decided by the majority of voters that AIUK should remain un-political and keep well away.

[whisky]

Dave,
If that's the case then those that don't like the status quo should put fingers to keyboard and bombard AUK with emails so theirs so many it gets rid of all those whinging longbow archers out of the mag about recurve longbows etc (If you ask me a sticks a stick, however its bent) - lights paper and stands well back with asbestos suit on

[greydog]

I think the most effective way to get a good feeling for how the majority of archers feel about the dress code, without any one group or individual sticking their neck on the chopping block, is for GNAS to get in touch with club secretaries.

They can do so easily enough as they have contact details for all the clubs paying fees, yes? Then they get the secretary over the space of maybe a month to contact the members of that club and have them tick a box much like the poll at the start of this thread. Then they return the results on a set date.

This avoids a number of problems, people putting multiple votes in, voter apathy, GNAS having to send forms out to thousands of members etc, they would also get results within a set time period, instead of in dribs and drabs.

This would be pretty easy to implement if people put their minds to it, and would get the issue resolved long before 2008 without people having to travel miles to attend an AGM.