XP Carbon

[BorderBows]

Patented ideas have intelectual rights but not if they are in the hands of the mass market!!!

We have had XP carbon out for a while. 11 years. How come the INNO limb has a surprising "Patented" 45 degree double angled carbon... the X in XP10 XP30 hex 4 hex5 Xp10 evoultion all stands for this double angled idea. This technology has been in your hands for a decade!

INNOVATION.

We are saying this because we have sent 2 emails to Mr Park Explaining this problem about his marketting, challenging his patent!

if you want more info on their patent, visit ::Professionalism & Strength :: and you will find a limb that has the same widths, recurve shape and technology as our 10year old XP10 Black Douglas limb. Good to see its good enough to copy! OK, it has a foam core, but thats not new either!

All you guys out there with XP10 ILF limbs can sit and enjoy that you have a 10year old "Malt" Inno Limb OK, it is glass powered, but has "45 degree double angled carbon" stabilising its performance

Maybe the next step for the Inno MKII will be a HEX4 limb :-) lol

[krela]

If you wanted to throw a spanner into the works you could always dispute the patent under the prior art ruling

[Jimbow]

You would probably have to check how they have infringed the claims of your patents and what they are claimimg. Unfortunately my experiance is that patent lawyers write these things so that they are the only ones who understand them so you have to pay them to interpert for you.

[krela]

Originally Posted by Jimbow

You would probably have to check how they have infringed the claims of your patents and what they are claimimg. Unfortunately my experiance is that patent lawyers write these things so that they are the only ones who understand them so you have to pay them to interpert for you.

Lets not forget that BT have the patent on the sending of digital and analogue data down a copper wire.

Isn't the patent system effective?

[BorderBows]

We dont have any patents on any of our ideas. We have some ideas that are patentable, maybe on the Hex6.

But we dont want archers to get mislead about information that appears not very easy to understand nor information that might be down right wrong!.

The great thing is, we cant find any info on the patent... Would be glad to read it if anyone can. Not sure the patents exist! Google finds most patent details, not saying it doesnt exist, it might, we just cant find it, to be able to contest it.

A patent number first appeared on the adverts, then the patent number dissapeared... but they are still harping on about a Innovative idea thats 10 years old... and in the public hands.

you cant go claiming rights to the wheel...if its in the public domain. But claiming you invented the wheel is a bit misleading if thats what your advertising is aiming at when its been around for a while?

[Zippo]

Wow the Hex6? Any sneak peeks? The idea of hex4/5 is still so interesting, I bet the hex6 would blow most people away!

[BorderBows]

We have a conceptual hex6, it needs formers, it needs prototyping, it needs alot of work opposed to being a working idea yet. The idea is there...

We have just launched the hex5s so have a lot of back orders to work on.

The hex6 is a long way away. Lets say at least 2 years...

The hex6 is going to be another tweek on the hex5, with a tweek on performance. Storing more energy. This time gap will also be used for material testing too....

[Wrexham Exile]

EEK!

dont start talking about the hex6's yet,

i aint even held my hex5's yet!!!!!

[Zeb]

Patents only apply to the geographical area in which they are regisetred.
For example I needed to patent a pump design separately in America, Europe and Japan because they were our main markets.

In europe and Japan my original claims were accepted, but in America my claim had to be more specific to avoid overlap with another American patent.

If 45 degree carbon has not previously been used in Japan, then they could claim a patent there, however they may not be successful with an American or European claim.
I can't find the W&W patent, so they may have filed and been rejected!

One problem for Border could be that unless you have sold your limbs in Japan, before the W&W patent was filed, you may have problems selling there now. That depends if W&W actually have a patent, and if they wish to claim royalties for Border sales in Japan.

Had I not obtained a patent, there was a possibility that anopther company could have made a similar claim, then tried to charge royalties from our company sales in that country. For this reason patents are often obtained as a precaution rather than to prevent others producing something similar.

We would not have taken action if our ideas had been copied, but wanted to avoid loosing the right to sell our own product.

Patents are of dubious value. They are costly to obtain and costly to defend if you want to claim royalties. Some protection may be obtained by ensuring you publish full technical information in your potential market countries. This may prevent the concept being patented by someone else, but makes it easier for them to copy your ideas. The risks and benefits are not easy to ballance.

[BorderBows]

We have sold limbs into odd countries all over the world. Estonia, Sweden, Austrailia, New Zealand, Tazmania, Suriname, and have a dealer in Japan,
and all over europe, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, France. We have also sold bows into Amerca, north continent and south, South Africa, namibia, to name some more even Nipal and Chile.
Heck the BBC documentary has on video (meet the natives) us giving a Falcon to the tribal people of Vanuatu.


XP carbon (the name has been used by other companies) has been ebayed all over the place.

Bow Tech, a small trad bow company has been pushing the XP carbon name. How they came about that name im not sure as we invented the "XP" term, it stands for "cross ply" carbon... not sure bow tech knows this... but they are not claiming intelectual rights. or claiming any innovation.

What if there is no patent?

We dont tell anyone about our ideas just for this reason, Our products are the way they are, dont ask us why! The lack of technical info on our contruction is for this reason. When we see quotes coming from GB squad members or ex GB squad members who claim our limbs are "over priced over hyped rubbish" we are not sure how we over hyped them as we have a general policy not to advertise as this means opening up our simple, functional attitude to bow design and construction. This is our way of protecting our little secrets.

Win&Win have let our cat out the bag, Good gob its taken them 10 years to realise this. As we have been rushing about with other simple but effective ideas to make our bows better.