Arrows

[Barry C]

My old friend shot carbon shafts at busa a few years ago, he was the major reason the tournament took hours longer than it should have done. There are still more than 3 of his shafts under the rugby pitch at lilleshall. Using all carbons is inconsiderate for novice/intermediate archers, but the big problem is that if u lose one on a shared ground rugby/****** you could be responsible sometime in the future of hurting someone. Indoors all carbons are a nice cheap if low performance solution for beginners, with perhaps the exception of some 3d shafts that are not cheap.

why is ****** a forbidden word btw? s o c c e r did that work?

[joetapley]

why is ****** a forbidden word btw? s o c c e r did that work?

Odd I thought it referred to h o c k e y

As for all carbon arrows. They are findable but take longer. OK for local club usage I suppose. Tourmanent organisers don't like them as they can throw their schedules way out with the extra time wasted.

[Greenman]

Interesting , I had been considering some of these carbons for the kids, as I didn't fancy having to straighten Jazzs out all the time,now reviewing the problem.

[Barry C]

I think they should be ok with low poundage bows as they shouldnt submarine under the grass.

[Merlin Archery]

First up, my apologies for this post. (And my first one on this board, too! I’m not normally a complainer. Honest..) This is a copy of a letter that has gone out to try and get clarification on the carbon arrow issue. There are much deeper issues at hand, and this ‘banning’ culture, instead of finding a solution, is just the easy path, and not the right path.

A little point I would like to make to you compound shooters out there. It wasn’t so long ago when many archery clubs tried to ban compound bows. Thankfully the GNAS put a stop to that and the compound bow has grown into a major division.

Here goes.

It’s very rare that I’m moved to write a letter of complaint about anything, but there is an issue that has been bothering me for a while, and I now feel it must be addressed as it is becoming more and more commonplace. This issue is to do with some archery clubs banning the use of all carbon arrow shafts. More specifically, clubs being allowed to hold record status tournaments specifying that competitors using carbon arrow shafts will not be allowed to compete. It is said that the reason for this stipulation is that carbon arrow shafts can’t be found with a metal detector, and because the tournament field is also a sports field, there is a risk of injury to other users of the field falling onto a hidden or broken arrow.

I can fully understand the reasoning behind sports ground owners stipulating to the club that all lost arrows must be found. I also accept and support the fact that archery clubs should be able to run their clubs however they see fit. However, I feel it is wrong that a tournament organiser is able to stipulate what equipment may or may not be used at a record status event. A record status event is shot in accordance with the rules of GNAS. The rule book clearly states what equipment may be used, and if a tournament is granted the title of ‘record status’ then if an archer’s equipment complies with said rules, they should be allowed to shoot. Do you think FITA would allow the Lords Cricket Ground to ban carbon arrows at the 2012 Olympics?

You might think I’m being petty, and you might say people should just shoot aluminium arrows or carbon/aluminium arrows and be done with it. There are several underlying reasons why I don’t think this should be the case. Firstly, one manufacturer has a virtual monopoly on aluminium and carbon/aluminium shafts. (Probably 99% of all aluminium and carbon/aluminium tournament arrows sold in the UK.) Good for them, you might say. But if this trend of banning carbon arrows continues to grow, the tournament organiser is effectively supporting a certain manufacturer. If organisers can choose what equipment can and can’t be used then it’s a short step away from them choosing what brands can and can’t be used.

Another reason is discrimination. Discriminating against carbon shafts also discriminates those who can’t, or don’t want to pay more than £100 for a set of aluminium/carbon arrows! There are a multitude of all carbon arrows that can aid archers long distance shooting without breaking the bank. I’m in the archery business and have sold, and always will sell, all arrow types. I am now having issues arise where customers have bought a set of carbon arrows, been very happy, only to return dismayed having been told some tournaments on his circuit won’t allow them to shoot. I sell equipment based on the rules of archery and shouldn’t be expected to cater for differing rules on a club to club basis. Equally, archers competing at record status events shouldn’t be forced into buying a brand they wouldn’t normally have chosen. (As is currently happening.) Not so many years ago compound bows were banned at some events for no real reason other than organiser’s personal preferences. Thankfully, this was overcome and the compound bow is flourishing.

It seems that this ‘banning of carbon arrows’ is a self imposed rule, and is the easy option for clubs unwilling to find a solution to this new problem of lost arrows. I say ‘new’ because carbon arrows have been around a long time. When the carbon arrow was first invented by Beman Archery it was an all carbon shaft and became hugely successful all over Britain and the rest of the World. It set a new standard for other manufacturers to follow because of the weight advantage over aluminium arrows. I would bet that the organisers of the more established clubs currently banning carbon arrows allowed their use back then, because it gave them this advantage. If they found a way to use a shared field before, they should be able to do it now.

I believe this issue could be quite easily resolved if a club, who is under instructions that all lost arrows must be found, invests in a better metal detector. If metal detectors can find old pennies buried 3-4” inches deep in the ground they can certainly find a brass or steel arrow point somewhere near the surface. If, however, a club is still told they can’t use all carbon arrows, or the club themselves decides they don’t want people to shoot all carbon arrows, then their ground should be classed unsuitable for record status tournaments. After all, if you don’t have a long enough overshoot you don’t just say ‘30lb maximum draw weight’ and be expected to get away with it.

I’m asking the GNAS to clarify the confusion regarding this situation. If the GNAS continues to turn a blind eye to this, then it won’t be long before arrow manufactures start complaining that their FITA legal arrows are being restricted in the UK.

Yours Sincerely

Ben Jones

[Adam]

I believe this issue could be quite easily resolved if a club, who is under instructions that all lost arrows must be found, invests in a better metal detector. If metal detectors can find old pennies buried 3-4” inches deep in the ground they can certainly find a brass or steel arrow point somewhere near the surface. If, however, a club is still told they can’t use all carbon arrows, or the club themselves decides they don’t want people to shoot all carbon arrows, then their ground should be classed unsuitable for record status tournaments. After all, if you don’t have a long enough overshoot you don’t just say ‘30lb maximum draw weight’ and be expected to get away with it.

Well said Ben. I happen to think that, of all you wrote, the above paragraph puts the whole issue into the greatest perpective.

Good luck in your campaign with GNAS. You'll need it.

Adam

[Bald Eagle]

We don't allow the use of pure carbon arrows in our club. Our metal detector is the best money can buy, we have enough trouble finding longbow brass piles buried under the grass without trying to find a small pile. We share our field with rugby players and the last thing we want is for them to find a broken pure carbon arrow when they dive for the line! We have no intention of putting on a record status shoot, if we did and the rules state that pure carbons can be used, then we would not put it on! Our shooting ground is more valuable to us than a "technicality"

[sky_high30]

Hold on a second here chaps.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/metal-detector2.htm.

Of course a longbow arrow is going to be hard to find - the shaft is made from wood (not a conductor), feathers for fletchings (not conductors) and the knocks are plastic (not a conductor either). The only thing in there that's metal is the brass pile, and brass isn't a brilliant conductor anyway. Take a carbon arrow. It's got inserts, piles and the carbon shaft - all of which are conductors. Am I missing something here? This is based on a limited understanding...

[Jerry Tee]

As far as I can see no club has a leg to stand on if they try to ban carbon arrows and yet allow long bows to shoot non metal arrows.I think the correct term is reluctance. ( A measure of a materials ability to concentrate magnetic lines of force )

[Rik]

Originally Posted by sky_high30

Hold on a second here chaps.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/metal-detector2.htm.

Of course a longbow arrow is going to be hard to find - the shaft is made from wood (not a conductor), feathers for fletchings (not conductors) and the knocks are plastic (not a conductor either). The only thing in there that's metal is the brass pile, and brass isn't a brilliant conductor anyway. Take a carbon arrow. It's got inserts, piles and the carbon shaft - all of which are conductors. Am I missing something here? This is based on a limited understanding...

You're forgetting about discrimination. MDs are set up for metals, not just "conducting substances" (wood doesn't conduct? probably depends on the direction - I wouldn't call it an insulator). It's true to say that for arrow detection you want a fairly unsophisticated MD, (one which won't ignore Aluminium!) but I've not seen one which will detect carbon or wood shafts.

Which is kind of beside the point anyway. A metal detector is not necessarily the best way to find any kind of shaft. On some grounds they are impossible to use. A rake is more reliable, doesn't need batteries and doesn't discriminate against a particular material of shaft... Half the time shafts 'found' with a MD are actually found by the person looking at the ground while they use it. You'd get results as good by swinging a frisbee on the end of a stick...