Wild Shots

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Max

I have been led to understand that cams like the Hoyt Cam 1/2 don't actually exhibit a valley as such, because the cams come hard up against the stops before the weight increases again?

Correct. It's not so much a valley, more of a flat-spot. That said, the cam & 1/2 has a "longer" flat-spot than the Spiral cam. If you prefer a rock solid wall that forces you to maintain back tension (and good form) try the Spiral cams. I love 'em.

Adam

[Jerry Tee]

It could be your recurve brain telling you to make a fast movment at the point of release and you get a large twitch. I wouldn't do any thing till Geoff comes back with his answer.

Originally Posted by Adam

Correct. It's not so much a valley, more of a flat-spot. That said, the cam & 1/2 has a "longer" flat-spot than the Spiral cam. If you prefer a rock solid wall that forces you to maintain back tension (and good form) try the Spiral cams. I love 'em.

Adam

What is the down side of the Spiral cam Adam? is it much quicker than the Cam&1/2?

[Max]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tee

It could be your recurve brain telling you to make a fast movment at the point of release and you get a large twitch. I wouldn't do any thing till Geoff comes back with his answer.

Good Advice Jerry and one that I am already on to. Geoff very kindly sent me a long PM confrming some of my suspicions and with loads of advice on how to start controlling the shot, techniques for slowly building the 'surprise' element of the shot and some goal setting around that. This is going to be my rehab program.

Hopefully, if I can shoot a bow that is not quite so savage off the stops (possibly my Ultramag, or my Pro Elite if it can be retuned, maybe even another bow), then I can still enjoy shooting in a competition and the effects of the occasional twitch will be much less exagerated.

Which brings me to an interesting point and possibly some conjecture. Should a beginner ideally shoot a bow with a nice long valley (or flat spot), rather than something that flies off the stops? The advantage would be to prevent some of the wild (possibly dangerous) shots that punching a harsh bow might create. however, I can also see that it could hide bad form for longer and delay the development of good back tesion. What type of bow lends itself to a longer flat spot - the opposite of the spiral cam if you like?

[Jerry Tee]

I can't comment with too much authority on release aids I tried them but I found the temptation to punch overwelming.So I went back to fingers, you could always do the same if can't cure your problem. the plus point with a longer valley is that if you do let forward a little you won't hit the ramp.as for the rest It depends too much on the construction of the bow. A lot of people rave about barnsdales and stable and forgiving they are on Archerytalk, Marcus seems to think that long AtA bows are not that forgiving.You pays your money and fits the bows to your style. For fingers there are two options according to the letoff. Firstly with about 50% letoff and holding about 30 lbs you can shoot like a recurve but out of the valley, there is enough weight to get good finger clearance on loose you could even use a clicker. At higher letoffs there is a light weight on the fingers, pulling firmly into the back wall and loosing with a good backwards movement off the back wall seems to be the way to go.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rgsphoto

What is the down side of the Spiral cam Adam? is it much quicker than the Cam&1/2?

I don't think there is a downside. I shoot my cam & 1/2 Ultratech at 57.5lbs and the spiral cam bow at 54lbs and I reckon it's still quicker. The lower draw weight stops it being any more tiring to shoot. I like the rock-solid wall and the way it forces me to maintain back-tension.

Some may consider the lack of draw-length adjustment to be a problem (there's only about a quarter inch to play with) but, if you know your optimum draw length, it's no big deal.

Adam

[Davros]

I had the same problem- almost anticipating the shot- I called it premature ejaculation! I was fortunate enough to be able to try a range of releases of other club members and found the Cascade did the trick. down to a 28 handicap within a few weeks. The release works opposite from others - the thumb is relaxed off the button to let the shot go, not depressed. See if you can borrow one- If not go to Quicks, they'll let you try one for sure.

[Bald Eagle]

I don't think you have target panic! I used to shoot a Hoyt and got M.B. over and over, 6 gold ends,1300 Fitas 1200plus roses etc etc, Then something happened, I got a Bowtech!! When shooting the Hoyt I had to "strangle"it. When I relaxed into the shot, it used to pull my release out of my hand, hit the riser and fly back over my head! With the Bowtech, the stop is more positive and I don't have any problems with the cams pulling forward. The hoyt cam and a halfs are super, but having now gone to Bowtech, problem solved, scores back up, happy bunny!!!

[Max]

Originally Posted by Bald Eagle

I don't think you have target panic! I used to shoot a Hoyt and got M.B. over and over, 6 gold ends,1300 Fitas 1200plus roses etc etc, Then something happened, I got a Bowtech!! When shooting the Hoyt I had to "strangle"it. When I relaxed into the shot, it used to pull my release out of my hand, hit the riser and fly back over my head! With the Bowtech, the stop is more positive and I don't have any problems with the cams pulling forward. The hoyt cam and a halfs are super, but having now gone to Bowtech, problem solved, scores back up, happy bunny!!!

Very glad to hear you are happy with the Bowtec Bald Eagle. You are also correct that I don't have target panic, just a collection of bad (and all too common) habits that seem to come along with compound (as indeed there are with other bow types).

As you may have seen from earlier messages, I have been helped a lot by Geoffretired, who has been my 'Virtual Coach' and has got me through this through the application of some simple techniques, particularly getting used to the surprise shot. After going with Geoff's sugestions, it was very clear that I was actually flinching at the prospect of a surprise shot and it was being able to master that aspect that helped me on the way. I guess it is similar to handing a high power pistol to someone for the first time - the matural instinct is to cringe as the trigger is pulled, waiting for the huge explosion.

I was attracted to the Hoyt Cam 1/2 because of the fantastic way the system offered a wide range of draw lengths - what I did not appreciate is that the system works by limiting the cam rotation, which can make the power curve come on very rapidly. What appeared to be great system for a novice, being so adaptable, was also very critical of poor form, especially not being firmly in charge of the bow and keeping the tension on hard.

One day, when I am sure my draw length is OK and I am confident that my form deserves it, I might go for a fixed draw length bow like the Bowtec, but I have some way to go to justify that at the moment.

One hard lesson I have learned is not to buy a race car when you've just passed your test!

Cheers.

[Bald Eagle]

Well said Max, the new bowtechs have modular cams so you can put the module on to suit your draw length.