New bow. Pros and Cons

[disbloke]

Hi all

I'm going to be investing a new bow, with the intention of lifting myself to new heights

Want to see if i can find out a bit more first so i can have a starting point to work from. Doesn't mean I won't end up buying a sparkely blue bow just because I like the colour though!

What I'm after are the Pros and cons of Reflex versus Deflex risers, the benefits of different bow brace heights, axle length, different cams etc.

I'm not worried particularly over who the manufacturer is more a fact finding exercise. I've got some information but unfortunately most manufacturers seem to be obsessed with telling us how fast their new model is and not really giving explanations as to what it means in the real world.

At the end of the day I'll stil be making my choice based on how I feel when I shoot the bow, so all your advice could end up counting for nothing when that sparkely bow flutters its cams at me seduces me with its colour

Cheers, Kevin

[geoffretired]

Reflex risers put the grip closer to the string so they reduce the bracing height(deflex is the opposite) Reflex risers, therefore get a longer power stroke from the actual drawlength, so faster all other things being equal. reflex risers give the bow a more forward balance so it takes less extra weight to get them to fall forward on release.
Too low a brace height can cause the string to hit the arm close to the wrist.
Longer bows tend to be more stable as the whole bow acts like its own stabiliser. Older bows tended to get the extra length from the limbs where more modern ones tend to use longer risers. The wheels and cams alter the way the poundage builds and lets off at the end. Roundish wheels tend to increase gently and let off gently and have a long valley.( there is a sort of flat spot at the end of the draw where the poundage goes neither up nor down; in some it can be pulled for over an inch with little change in feel.)
Harder cams build quickly to max poundage, stay there until very close to full draw, let off suddenly and reach the end as a sudden stiff part called the wall or stops. They store more energy and are faster to shoot.
Parallel limbs tend to create less shock so they can feel gentler, some say less lively.

[Marcus26]

The problem with the 'deflex has a higher brace height' thing is that it assumes all else is equal.
Brace height is determined by limb length and limb angle. So a deflex riser may well have a lower brace height than a reflex one.

Longer bows tend to be more stable as the whole bow acts like its own stabiliser.

That implies that shorter bows are unstable, myself and many others have found quite the opposite. I believe this is a stereotype based on finger shooting and holds no water these days.

What I look for in a bow
• Weight. I want a lightweight bow so I can distribute the mass how it is required. 4.0-4.3lb is good
• Limbs design. I want a parralell limb design as it maximises speed
• Nock travel. I want a bow with both level and straight nock travel. You may need to test this for yourself.
• Speed. I want an IBO speed of 320fps and up.
• Wall. I want a rock hard wall.
• Valley. I want a long valley

For me only a couple of bows on the market meet these requirements.

[Jerry Tee]

The first thing to fix VERY FIRMLY in you head is 'will the arrow notice what colour the bow is on the way to its intended point on the target'. Next does it matter how fast it is? They will try to impress you with with the speed of the bow, fair enough you need to make the 90 meter mark ( with a peak draw weight limit of 60lbs) but you don't want a bow that will try to pull your arm out of its' socket when you let it down, or if you happen to creep forward a little, so you need a draw cycle that is smooth. I tried a Hoyt Trycon the other day and found out that there is nasty hump in the draw force curve just before the valley which makes letting the bow down unpleasant.You need a good size valley and a firm back wall at the end. The next choice is how are you going to shoot the bow? Off fingers or with a release aid? GNAS has a class of compound called Compound limited which restricts you to plain sight and tab and fingers. There are not many archers in this class, but some like myself prefer to shoot this way. If you take this route then you will need a bow with a longer axle to axle ( A to A) lenght and softer, smoother cams. I shoot an Oneida which is the bow shown in my avatar.There is some disscusion as to whether or not a longer A to A is more forgiving than a shorter bow string and cable inconsistances can have a greater effect on these bows due to their lenght. I don't have that problem with my bows the cables are short and steel ( Look at www.oneidaeaglebows.com for a better picture). The riser is neither reflex or deflex but neutral. Reflex risers put the center of draw pressure forward of the of the center of pressure of the grip this tends to make them less stable.With the stabs available to fit to the bow I don't think it would make that much difference though.
If you are going to use a release aid then a shorter bow would be better. I am not a release aid archer so I will leave that to others with more experience in that field than me.
How much money do you want to spend? I would not buy off Ebay for your first bow. I did but I was very lucky, I realise now that I could have bought a load of rubish. There are makers that run two brands the second cheaper, Hoyt also make Reflex bows and use their designs for them , Bowtech do a similar thing with Diaomnd. You may also be able to buy second hand from a shop there are a lot of good bows that are only last years models with very little difference to this years models.
Log on to www.huntersfriend.com and have a read, you will find bow comparison charts and an explanation of the various characteristics. Armed with this information go out and try as many bows as you can. Make your self a short list of bows you like and then come back and post a thread and ask for pros and cons of those bows.

[Jerry Tee]

I have just been through the old threads and came acorss ' How do I choose a compound bow' . Do a search for that thread there's a lot of relevant information there that you will find useful.

[greydog]

Most of the info you need has been covered above, but a couple of the points alot of people get lost over is brace height and stability.

The brace height, either large (8"+) or small (6"-) will work for or against you based more on your draw length and the design of the riser than whether or not the arrow is on the string longer.

One of the reasons a heavily reflexed riser becomes more twitchy than a deflex one is when the ends of the riser connecting to the limb pockets are angled sharply away from the archer, this type of design tends to amplify torque induced by the hand as the ends of the riser work like levers and turn the limbs from side to side with much less effort than a straight or deflex riser, this added to the fact that most reflex risers tend to be shorter in axle length than their 'target bow' equivalents means you are pulling more string out from the cams to achieve the same draw length as you would on a longer bow, the more string you pull out, the less the riser is able to resist any hand torque.
However, there are plenty of reflexed riser designs on the market now that have over come this problem through good designs with shorter limbs.

A bows stability is more a case of getting a balance between the mass weight of the bow, and how that's distributed through stabilisers etc, and finding your exact draw length and comfortable holding weight. If you have those factors under control, you will be able to shoot pretty much any axle length bow to the best of your ability.

Very short axle length bows in the hands of people with long draw lengths may give consistancy problems because of the reasons mentioned above, but set up properly and shot with a consistant technique, there is no reason they shouldn't shoot well.

[disbloke]

Thanks to everyone so far.

Generally helping to make some of the issues about bows come a little clearer. I was told by my coach to do some research find out about the different bows available so that when it comes to sorting a bow out I'll have a starting point to work from.

Kevin

[Marcus26]

Next does it matter how fast it is?

2 archers, both of the same ability and strength
Joe uses a long axle bow that is rated at 300fps IBO. He uses 500 X10's.
Fred uses a short bow, with a 320fps IBO rating. He uses 410 X10's.
They both are neck for neck when the weather is fine.
When it gets windy, Joe shoots 290's at 90m, Fred shoots 315's. Joe aims in the 8 to get his arrow in the gold, Fred just aims down the middle.

That is why speed matters.


Regardng hand torque, if you set your sight extension into the correct position t is not an issue.

[Bald Eagle]

Looks like a Bowtech then!!

[Jerry Tee]

Ok so speed is important but don't get caught up in the hype, 320 fps and a smooth and comfortable draw might well be better than 328 fps and not so smooth. I didn't mean to suggest that speed is not important just that there is sometimes a price to be paid for it.