New Compound

[Marcus26]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tee

As is often the case I have come back for a good read. The point about string lenght and its effect on string movement on release,What are factors that cause this movent? Is it a difference in cams take up of the string?

Trying to get my head around what exactly you are asking. Is it what causes the string to move left-right?


I know I will get slammed here, but Merlin bow's fail to impress me. Their cam system is poor, even their twin cams are ordinary. The Darton cam is inferior to the Hoyt and PSE hybred cams.

Just to back up what Marcus has to say about long axle bows and high Brace hights. I have an old Green horn Bow. I aquired it as part of a job lot I swapped with a guy last year. It is a 45lb 45" axle 9" brace hight round wheel bow. Everything that a so called forgiving bow should have. It is bloody awfull to shoot! It is hopless and not forgiving at all.

I shot a short axle PSE Nitro for while last year. Hard single cam. 6" brace hight. It was OK but by no means as good as my current bow, a Bowman Accu-Riser. This has Whedle cams ( spelling ) with a shoot through cable system, 40" axle and 7" brace hight. BUT I do wonder if the swiveling handle is a wast of time? Does it introduce torque into the other end of teh bow, ie the release aid end. It does seem very sensitive to a good release with my BT release. I have considered trading it or buying another bow with a fixed handle. Perhaps Marcus could pass on an opinion regarding the accu-riser. Be honest please I need to know if it a good, bad or OK bow, one way or another.

Regards

Rich

[Shirt]

Originally Posted by rgsphoto

This has Whedle cams ( spelling ) with a shoot through cable system, 40" axle and 7" brace hight.

Wedel cams, after Juan Wedel - a Costa Rican guy who shot some pretty good scores with Bowman bows...

[Medoc]

Have to agree with Marcus on the Martins, and not just the cams what about rubber covered limbs? are they trying to hide something.
Can recommend the Hoyt cams for stability though you do have to watch them for timing, but like the look of the bowtec system as well, although I havnt shot it (yet) I have heard good reports about it.

Which ever way you go I would recommend that you get to try as many bows as possible because we all know the damn thing has to feel right in the first place.

[JohnK]

My local shop has a good range of Martin compounds, and not a single one has limbs covered in rubber

[Marcus26]

I've only shot the Accuriser once and didn't care for it. Very heavy, shorter arrows were a pain in the neck, and hated the grip. Also don't like shoot through systems.

I think we get hung up far too much about torque. It's such an easy thing to beat, yet we talk like it's the secret to hitting 1400.
Essentually if you
Keep the bow only in the thumb muscle, not too high and not too low
Watch the arrow in relation to the stabilizer, keep it the same each shot
Set your sight and rest in positions that reduce the effects

and torque is no longer an issue.

No suprized the Nirto didn't suit. We couldn't get consistant shots out of one either. In contrast I could nail X's with a Supertec. Similar specs.

It took 14 months of selling Bowtechs for me to try one (I was shooting well with my UltraElite) and the first thing I said was "Wish I bought one of these last year".

Thanks for that Marcus, most informative. Have some

[stevie]

Originally Posted by Marcus26

Thing is that you can not assume that a higher brace height and slower cams are automatically more tolerant than a faster setup.
Case in point #1
Spirals vs Cam 1/2.
The Cam 1/2 would be more 'forgiving', right? Not always. Because of the way the back wall is designed on the Cam 1/2 it is very very easy to not notice this cam being out of time. When it is you will get high shots (high gold indoors) that you shouldn't get. The Spirals have a longer draw stop and thus a harder wall, so you can feel straight away when it's out and fix it. Then the extra 12fps from the Spirals allows the use of a much heavier projectile in windy conditions which allows you to score more in tough conditions.
If a finger shooter is using a clicker this effect is minimal, however release shooters shooting off a wall this is a major concern.

Case in point #2
Brace Height
IF higher brace heights are more forgiving and thus will give you more points then why are people not buying bows with 9" brace heights? Fact is they are not and since bows have gotten shorter and lower in brace scores have improved greatly.
There is an optimal brace height for each person's draw length. Too high and the string will still be moving left-right when it lets go of the arrow on a bad release. It won't have time to straighten up. Also too high and it has not had a chance to guide the arrow very long, like having a short barrel on a rifle.
With fingers there is a left-right movement of the string, you tune your arrows to take this into account. If you change the rate of movement it won't shoot as well.
With release that left-right movement doesn't exist. If you release poor enough that it does exist then you were not aiming in the middle anyway and the shot placement will be random. You may hit the 10, but that's luck more than forgiveness.
The only real way to get left-right stuff with a release is to torque the bow, and the effect of that is determined by the rest and sight position, not the brace height.

Long Axle to Axle compounds are not wise with a release aid because your string lengths are alot longer. Even with materials like 452X there can be movement in the string. The longer the string the greater the movement. This is why it is best to avoid long axle to axle bows. Obviously finger shooters need to reduce pinch, however release shooters don't. So a release shooter must look at a shorter bow to reduce string length and vertical string movement on release, a hard wall with level nock travel, and optimising their rest and sight positions to reduce the effects of torque. After that a release shooter should shoot a high energey cam with stiff heavy arrows to counter the effects of wind drift and they will produce their best results. Brace height and axle length is not a factor for any of that.

HI MARCUS,stevie here just read your discussion on differant bows with differant axle to axle length my local dealer has done everything to disswade me against buying one with aaxle to axle length of 33 says they unforgiving and not practical for target shooting at all,having read your article i think you are right and will buy a 33 for a second bow also what do think of the bowtech 101st airborne this looks like a good bow and am considering changing my other hoyt for this ever try one all advice greatly appreciated.

[Marcus26]

Wow that was posted a long time ago. LOL

Your dealer is not very archery smart I'm afraid. Plenty of big scores have been shot with 33" and shorter bows. In my state alone I think every 1360+ score shot this year was with bows under 34".

The 101st Airborne I think will be a killer bow this year. Fast, good specs and looks well balanced. I do not like the string stopper or roller guard personally, but would shoot one (without the stopper). The 82nd is on my list of bows for 2008. (I have a list I um and arr about for 3 months before buying something else. LOL)

Personally right now I am shooting FITA with a 33" Allegiance and love it. It's my 5th Allegiance and I have always had good luck with them.

[stevie]

Originally Posted by Marcus26

Wow that was posted a long time ago. LOL

Your dealer is not very archery smart I'm afraid. Plenty of big scores have been shot with 33" and shorter bows. In my state alone I think every 1360+ score shot this year was with bows under 34".

The 101st Airborne I think will be a killer bow this year. Fast, good specs and looks well balanced. I do not like the string stopper or roller guard personally, but would shoot one (without the stopper). The 82nd is on my list of bows for 2008. (I have a list I um and arr about for 3 months before buying something else. LOL)

Personally right now I am shooting FITA with a 33" Allegiance and love it. It's my 5th Allegiance and I have always had good luck with them.

HI MARCUS,thanks for the prompt reply going to england At end of november for a shoot thinking of getting a bowtec will try a few and decide think my dealer never went below a38 axle to axle will let you know in due course what happens shoot a hoyt but have tried a few others of friends of mine and think i made the wrong choice it just doesnt feel right thanks for advice are you based in australia just asking have some friends there who hunt all the time with 33,s thanks for advice appreciated stevie.