Compoiund bare arrow tuning.

[sambow]

I have just started shooting compound after some time shooting recurve.

One of the things I have always done with my recurve bow is tuned the button/knock point to ensure that fletched arrows and unfletched arrows end up in the same place. I do this by shotting half a dozen fletched arrows and two unfletched ones at a target from 20yds. I have always had no problems getting them to group in the same place.

I thought I would try the same with my compound bow and I was expecuing it to be easier as I could make all the adjustments on my NAP QT1000.

The exercise has lef me very frustrated.

Again shooting six fletched and two unfletched arrows from 20 yds. I found that the unfletched arrows grouped 200mm below the fletched and 150mm to the right. NB I am left handed.

So I thought I would try adjusting the height of the QT1000 rest to tilt the front of the arrow up a few milimeters at a time. To cut a long story short, I tried all heights. It appeared to make absolutely no difference to the relative positions of the two groups.

So I thought I would try the left right positioning. I could get the two groups to line up left right, but it meant having the arrow way INSIDE the line of the string, which really didn't look right. The tip was approx 10mm to the inside of the string centreline (NB I was not lining the string to the centre of the bow when making this judgement, but lining it up offset to suit the cams).

Can anyone offer advice:

How important is bare arrow tuning?
How close should the group get? (I have heard that the bare shafts should be just below the fletched but never in the same vertical position or never above).
Does anyone have any ideas why my bare arrows don't seam to want to get near my fletched?

[laminatekid]

I have been told not to try bare shaft tuning unless you shoot with your fingers as opposed to a release aid.

[Jerry Tee]

You can bear shaft tune through paper. just do a normal paper tune and as the arrows have no vanes there will be no correction and errors will be larger and easier to read. I have only read about a couple of archers that tried it. The idea was that they were using large vanes and were concerned that even at close range these vanes were correcting the arrow enough to compromise the results of a paper tune.

[ThePinkOne]

But remember, if you try tune through paper or with bare shafts and you have issues with hand torque on the bow your readings will not exactly be textbook.

I've never tuned my compound formally, although on a walk back recently (did out of interest) my rest was spot on in position, and my bareshafts impact with the fletched ones at 6m and about 1" vertically below the group at 25m- but the shafts are also a little stiff. Even at 18m, the fletched groups give me tight groups blank-bale and the bow is quiet and feels sweet so why worry about tuning? I just get the bow feeling about right then work on me.

P.

[Marcus26]

Bareshaft tuning doesn't work on a compound bow. Period.
Here is a sample test. James Park rocked up to my club one day with each size of ACE from 720 to 400's. Also had 4 of them in bare shaft as well. All cut to the same length.
He then proceeded to shoot all of them into the 10 on a 40cm face at 18m.
I then took the set and repeated his test with the same result.
If bareshaft made a difference, then surely the barshafts would have all impacted in different spots.

Regarding paper. This also doesn't indicate spine with a left/right tear. What it will indicate is bow grip or facial contact. I have watched James put this set of ACE's through paper, all bullet holes.

Why is this so? Compound bows do not have the arrows flex left/right and the amount of flex vertical will be more dependent on nock travel than spine.

[Kae]

I'm with Marcus on this one.

I tried a set of two extremes of arrows out of a compound bow, and they grouped perfectly at all distances.

Recurve however is a completley different kettle of fish.......

Kae.

[ThePinkOne]

Originally Posted by Marcus26

Bareshaft tuning doesn't work on a compound bow. Period.
Here is a sample test. James Park rocked up to my club one day with each size of ACE from 720 to 400's. Also had 4 of them in bare shaft as well. All cut to the same length.
He then proceeded to shoot all of them into the 10 on a 40cm face at 18m.
I then took the set and repeated his test with the same result.
If bareshaft made a difference, then surely the barshafts would have all impacted in different spots.

Regarding paper. This also doesn't indicate spine with a left/right tear. What it will indicate is bow grip or facial contact. I have watched James put this set of ACE's through paper, all bullet holes.

Why is this so? Compound bows do not have the arrows flex left/right and the amount of flex vertical will be more dependent on nock travel than spine.

Good post.

Paper tuning: Glad to say, I don't bother, never have with my compound. I can make my arrows wag tails either way just like Marcus says, either by a shift in the grip or by a shift (e.g. scrunch up my paw) at the release aid end. In fact, I have been using that very fact to try get a consistent form- i.e. drop most stabilizers off bow and shoot bareshafts at short range (under 10m). When they impact clean with no tail wag all the time I know I've cracked it...... and that that particular alignment/draw in works for that grip and release aid... very educational, if not occasionally soul-destroying!

What I haven't yet done is tweaked my nock travel the optimum...

P.

[Davros]

I changed from R/C a year ago- bare shaft didn't seem to work. Bought new bow and tried paper tuning and it made sense. As per advice on Easton website -excellent guide to tuning. Now have, hopefully, correct nock height and correct rest position left/right. getting good groups. I was concerned that my arrow did not align with my longrod, but realised on reflection that since the bottom cam was off centre by about 1/8" (Mathews Ovation) that was the reason- made sense anyway when I drew out a plan view of the string/nock/riser when at full draw. When I had finished tuning I measured the distance from riser to centre-shaft and it was as recommended by Mathews -13/16" !
I will try bare shaft again when the weather clears just to see if it works now. The offset raises a further question in my mind though- If cams are offset should you shoot with riser vertical or the string? Not much difference I know but??

[geoffretired]

Sambow, Doing bareshaft to get the nocking point right should give good results.
My first reaction to your post is to find out why the relative positions of bare a fletched doesn't change when you raise the arrow rest. Are you using a release aid?

[sambow]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Sambow, Doing bareshaft to get the nocking point right should give good results.
My first reaction to your post is to find out why the relative positions of bare a fletched doesn't change when you raise the arrow rest. Are you using a release aid?

yes truball wrist release