Releases?

[pantherman]

At the risk of being thought of as a complete muppet.....
I'm a long term wrist release shooter, I came over from finger shooting a was scared of letting the release go, so the wrist release.
Over the years (12) I've on occasion tried thumb releases, but shot better with the wrist release so mostly stuck with it.
So after watching the 'Secrets of the Pros' DVD, and watching some topp(ish) GNAS archers shoot, I borrowed a Merlin thumb release. Groups well at 40yds. Not quite as well as I can with a wrist release but I'm still practicing.
So getting to the point, WHY DOES IT GROUP 18" TO THE RIGHT WITH THE SAME SET UP? Am making sure I'm looking through the centre of the peep, not pushing my face in to the string, so suggestions please. (ps I am left handed).

[Shirt]

Which direction does the jaw open when compared to your wrist release?

[Alex Greig]

When I use a wrist release my hand is held a different way to when using a hand held release. My sight marks also moved to the right due to me getting the string closer to my face.

[pantherman]

Not sure it can be the jaw opening direction, I use 3 different wrist releases and they open in different ways and directions and mostly hit in the same place.
On the other point, I accept this is most likely (had thought of it) BUT having come from a match air rifle back ground, with a gun if I look through the centre of the back sight (peep) and centre the foresight in the peep, surely it shouldn't matter. Your head should just tilt futher to compensate for it!!
Or does body dinamics come into play in some way?

[ThePinkOne]

Prob the position and angle of hand- I can send my arrows left and right by flexing my wrist with a hand-held release- discovered that when working out a reasonably repeatable hand position...

P.

[geoffretired]

When you change release aids, it normally changes the draw length of the archer. Not the bow. Some add a little to the distance from bow string to archer's drawing draw elbow;others reduce the distance. I found the thumb trigger reduced the distance. Also, thumb triggers tend to raise the draw hand at the reference point on the face requiring the peep to be lowered.
With the wrist strap the hand is under the jaw; the thumb trigger has the hand to one side.
All these things have to be adjusted for in some way. Usually with the peep sight ,as mentioned earlier, and draw length setting on the bow.
If you went straight from one to the other with no other changes, it could be that your upper body is now in a different alignment causing the change in left/ right impact.
If you have made adjustments to accommodate the thumb trigger, it could be that the new position of the string on your face is causing the changes.

[sambow]

I use wrist release, but occassionally my wrists have pain and I switch to hand held thumb release (merlin omega or fletchmatic). In both cases the grouping place is different. The anchoring point between my wrist and my hand releases is different as is the draw length. The anchoring difference will naturally effect the grouping place, but I think the draw length also will, becuase the position the elbow is in will be different and that will effect the way the back muscles work which will effect how the arrows are released.

I think it is expected to have different grouping places with two differently designed release mechanisms.

[Quadratus]

The bottom line is that, for whole host of reasons don't expect any two releases to shoot in the same place. They might, but if they don't just accept it and make the necessasary adjustments.

[SLOWHAND]

Interesting..... As everyone knows, in theory, aiming is a simple process, all you have to do is align three things-the back sight (peep) the fore sight and the target. But in practice it gets much more complex. A few months ago I tried a friends 07 Ally before I bought mine. He was hitting mostly in the ten (indoors) as I was with my bow, I then tried his and was getting good groups but they were all hitting about 5" low and 2" left. Why? We were using the same bow, the same sights, the same setting etc, but getting very different results. The same thing happened to a lesser extent when I used to shoot target rifle, give two people the same rifle and the results were usually slightly different.
I think the reasons for this must be due to the influence each individual archer has on the equipment. The body is merely a support for the equipment and ideally should have no influence on where the arrow goes. I try to find the best body position, ie. stance, posture,alignment etc. where the bow is naturally pointing at the centre of the target. The other vital factor is how we grip the bow.

[pantherman]

My thoughts tend to agree with Geoff, I think it is probably to do with shortening the draw lenght so the holding weight is moved on the body. So when I release I get the right arm move right more then I do with the wrist release. (The thumb release giving a shorter draw.) I wonder if I extended the draw length they would shoot the same?
Still as said if the eye back sight and foresight are in line, why don't they go in the same place? Shows the follow through of the shot has a lot of influence.