Need serious advice on my arrows

[Zippo]

Hi everyone

I recently bought a set of Navigators. Have not yet shot them. I've fitted in the points/nocks/fletches. After doing all those, I realised that there are "crack lines" at the tip of the arrow (at the point). The "lines" are very short, makes the arrow looks a little like its balloon-ing out, but with one or two exceptions which has longer crack lines.

I'm not really sure whats the cause of these but maybe someone can answer that for me. Before I fitted the points/etc, I was holding the shafts as a bundle and when I put them back in the tube, the bottom cover pop-ed out and the whole bundle of shafts dropped onto the floor. (the arrows are already cut to the length I want)

One of my seniors told me that its the heat that cause that to happen when fitting the points. But I'm pretty sure I followed the easton instructions strictly.

Anyways here are some of the pics. Not sure if u can see the clearly, but when I run my fingers over those areas, I can feel it. Let me know if its safe to shoot these arrows. If not, what should I do?




The one with the longer "crack lines"

[phil_r_58]

I would suspect that when the shafts hit the floor, it raised some of the fibres. Putting on the piles, which are a tight fit, will have pushed them up when you fitted them. Did you use some fine wet and dry paper to put a small chamfer on the outside edge before slipping the piles over ?

I had this happen when I bought my first set of all carbons, Exacta 1960's. I heated the pile, softened the hot melt, and the thin edge of the pile acted like a knife and raised some surface fibres.

[Zippo]

Originally Posted by phil_r_58

Did you use some fine wet and dry paper to put a small chamfer on the outside edge before slipping the piles over ?

No I didn't. After I heated the point (which was halfway in already) to soften the hot melt a little, I push down on the table to make sure the point goes all the way in, could pushing down too hard cause this to happen?

Anyways my main concern is whether the arrows are safe to shoot. Or should I do something with them.

[geoffretired]

Is there any chance that the cracks were produced by the cutter?
Also, are the cracks all round the shaft, or just on one short section?
The reason I'm asking is to try to work out why it might have happened; so it can be avoided in future by yourself and possibly others.
As to what to do next, what would happen if the ends were cut off to a point where the shafts were undamaged? Would they then be too short to shoot or too stiff to perform well?
If they were my arrows, I would mix some epoxy glue, like that for inserts, warm it till in becomes runny, and wipe it into the ends with a flexible spreader(leather?) to bond them back together. That would make me feel better about the "splinters in hands" issue.The piles you are using should add enough strength to the front of the shaft to prevent the damage spreading, so long as the fibres are well bonded by the expoxy.
But, in this age of health and safety awareness, I never said that and would not suggest you do it either.

[Zippo]

Not very sure about the cutter, since I didn't see the dealer cutting the arrows. But I didn't see any cracks or such when i was taking a look at the shafts before I assembled them.

The cracks are around the shafts.

The arrows could possibly be cut more but I got them cut to a slightly longer length so that they wouldn't be too stiff. (I'm planning to increase poundage in the future) So if its possible I wouldn't want to cut them now.

About the epoxy idea, would it cause the piles to be bonded to the shaft as well? Cause if it would, how am I supposed to remove them should I want to cut the arrows a little shorter?

[buzz lite beer]

phil_r_58, nav points aren't fit over style so it probably wont be that, you can get this carbon lifting as geoffretired said could be off the cutter, but most probable cause if the dropping incedent was eliminated would be the removal of the doughnut of hot melt glue that forms around the shaft and pile, if it is left to fully harden and then prised off in the wrong direction ie. down the shaft the fibres will be lifted off with the glue, for future reference get your thumbnail behind the glue on the shaft side and scrap it off in the direction off the pile,
as for are they safe to use, yes they are providing before you shoot them and I have done this on several occasions fill the offending area with a drop of liquid super glue then tightly bind the area with waxed dental floss, after an hour or so remove the dental floss and just fill the area with more super glue layer at a time 'till its level or slightly proud, a couple of shots through a straw boss will rub it down sufficiantly level again, It is also a good idea to put a ring of super glue around each pile, on any new set of arrows this fills any gaps between shaft and pile and prevents more potential fibers from lifting when shot into hard straw bosses. Any bond between the shaft and the pile with the super glue will be weekend enough by the usual heat method of point removal.

[Zippo]

Thanks for the advice..

Originally Posted by buzz lite beer

phil_r_58, nav points aren't fit over style so it probably wont be that, you can get this carbon lifting as geoffretired said could be off the cutter, but most probable cause if the dropping incedent was eliminated would be the removal of the doughnut of hot melt glue that forms around the shaft and pile, if it is left to fully harden and then prised off in the wrong direction ie. down the shaft the fibres will be lifted off with the glue, for future reference get your thumbnail behind the glue on the shaft side and scrap it off in the direction off the pile,

Yes that is exactly what I did. Scraped it off the direction of the pile. But as the hotmelt provided with the piles is very limited, I was forced to use a different stick which was very difficult to remove after it hardened, perhaps that might have contributed to the cracks.

as for are they safe to use, yes they are providing before you shoot them and I have done this on several occasions fill the offending area with a drop of liquid super glue then tightly bind the area with waxed dental floss, after an hour or so remove the dental floss and just fill the area with more super glue layer at a time 'till its level or slightly proud, a couple of shots through a straw boss will rub it down sufficiantly level again, It is also a good idea to put a ring of super glue around each pile, on any new set of arrows this fills any gaps between shaft and pile and prevents more potential fibers from lifting when shot into hard straw bosses. any bond with the super glue will be weekend enough by the usual heat method of point removal.

We don't have straw boards here in my club. We use foam boards only .. but I guess that wouldn't make much of a difference would it?

I'll give the superglue method a try. But before I do so, will the superglue have an effect on the carbon? (any chemical reactions, ..??)

[buzz lite beer]

May I enquire as to what the gold/silver residue could possibly be near the piles?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by buzz lite beer

as for are they safe to use, yes they are providing before you shoot them and I have done this on several occasions fill the offending area with a drop of liquid super glue then tightly bind the area with waxed dental floss, after an hour or so remove the dental floss and just fill the area with more super glue layer at a time 'till its level or slightly proud, a couple of shots through a straw boss will rub it down sufficiantly level again, It is also a good idea to put a ring of super glue around each pile, on any new set of arrows this fills any gaps between shaft and pile and prevents more potential fibers from lifting when shot into hard straw bosses. Any bond between the shaft and the pile with the super glue will be weekend enough by the usual heat method of point removal.

I've used the superglue technique to fix an a/c arrow that I slightly damaged at the point end. It held out well - at least until I rear ended the arrow - and I'm sure it would have been fine for much longer.

[buzz lite beer]

don't know how much glue you used but each little stick that easton supply will do around eight dozen arrows, other hot melts can require melting points that are too hot and can also lead to fibre lift, you should be able to comfortably hold the end of the pile with bare fingers while heating the shaft of the pile in the flame and get it hot enough to melt the glue. super glue will have no adverse effect on carbon and the resins therein.