double insurance..is this a problem?

[ignoramus]

I have this year taken over as club secretary of my club. Today I have received the membership renewal package from GNAS which clearly states that according to law 12a "only a member of the Society or a person who is a member of a national Society affiliated to FITA may shoot or officiate at any ....... Associated Club" .
The pack also asks me to sign a slip saying " all shooting members of the above club have paid their GNAS subscription fee" .

I can't sign this slip as this is not the case...in fact most of our members are not in GNAS or any other affiliated body. We shoot at a rugby club and are all members of the rugby club, and we have our own public liability insurance, ie, not through GNAS.

I have just rung GNAS to check whether my membership could be affected by the club not following this rule. They say not, but did point out that being effectively double insured could lead to both sets of insurance being invalidated for the few of us who are in GNAS.

So my difficulty is: do I try to get the rest of the membership to join?...impossible.
Do I join GNAS through another, "proper" archery club? Wouldn't this still mean I was double insured and therefore uninsured when shooting at my home club?
It seems to me that we need to be either all in or all out.

Is anyone else in a similar situation who can shed some light on the proper way forward?

[Robin the Hood]

[quote=ignoramus;162448]

So my difficulty is: do I try to get the rest of the membership to join?...impossible.
Do I join GNAS through another, "proper" archery club? Wouldn't this still mean I was double insured and therefore uninsured when shooting at my home club?
It seems to me that we need to be either all in or all out.

QUOTE]

I would have thought that doing the above would be the answer, and that when shooting at the archery club GNAS would have no come back.
As far as shooting with the Rugby Lads is, then you are under no obligation to GNAS as you are covered with the Club...Just my thought.............
Paul

[grimsby archer]

[quote=Robin the Hood;162479]

Originally Posted by ignoramus

So my difficulty is: do I try to get the rest of the membership to join?...impossible.
Do I join GNAS through another, "proper" archery club? Wouldn't this still mean I was double insured and therefore uninsured when shooting at my home club?
It seems to me that we need to be either all in or all out.

QUOTE]

I would have thought that doing the above would be the answer, and that when shooting at the archery club GNAS would have no come back.
As far as shooting with the Rugby Lads is, then you are under no obligation to GNAS as you are covered with the Club...Just my thought.............
Paul

One of the great archery myths comes from the statement that a gnas club has to have 3 members. Many clubs much bigger than 3 members register 3 of their members and declare themselves a gnas club. It seems a great way for "social archers" to get the benefits of a gnas club without the expense. If we all did that, gnas would be a lot worse off.

As you say, the gnas return states quite clearly that all members of a gnas club must be members of gnas.

The grey area seems to be what defines a club.

If Thingy Bowmen have 10 gnas members and 10 NFAS members they clearly infringe the requirement for all members to be members of GNAS.

However, Thingy Bowmen GNAS have 10 members, and a seperate club, who shoot on the same grounds at the same time, called Thingy Bowmen NFAS have 10 members. These are clearly (?) 2 seperate clubs, with the GNAS club being a bona-fide gnas club within the rules.

As I understand it, as a gnas member, it is you who is insured against causing injury to others. The lack of insurance held by other parties may affect you claiming against their negligence, but shouldnt affect your insurance status. Imagine having your car insurance revoked just because your next door neighbour didnt pay his premiums.

i realise that little of this has much bearing on the original question, but I didnt have anything else to do

My book "gnas insurance for dummies" will be in the shops soon

[mk1]

If as GNAS member you go to make use of a commercially run shooting facility any accidents on that facility would be covered by the facility's insurance not your GNAS cover. (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong).

So those of you who want to compete etc and need to be members of GNAS can form a club and use the (commercial) premises as your Club Facility.

??

[Random_guy]

Originally Posted by Robin the Hood

However, Thingy Bowmen GNAS have 10 members, and a seperate club, who shoot on the same grounds at the same time, called Thingy Bowmen NFAS have 10 members. These are clearly (?) 2 seperate clubs, with the GNAS club being a bona-fide gnas club within the rules.

I was under the impression that you WERE NOT allowed to have this situation, as we were told that if the Royal company of Archers (who shoot on the same field as us but are members of the BLS and NOT of GNAS) were on shooting, then we (GNAS members) were not allowed on the field at all and were DEFINATLEY not allowed to shoot at the same time as it would effectively mean that none of the people on the field were insured at all......

[grimsby archer]

Originally Posted by Random_guy

I was under the impression that you WERE NOT allowed to have this situation, as we were told that if the Royal company of Archers (who shoot on the same field as us but are members of the BLS and NOT of GNAS) were on shooting, then we (GNAS members) were not allowed on the field at all and were DEFINATLEY not allowed to shoot at the same time as it would effectively mean that none of the people on the field were insured at all......

As I already said, insurance is insurance and unless the tems of the policy exclude this situation (can't see anything in the gnas policy that does) as the insured party your liability should be covered regardless of whatever anyone else does.

What you are describing is like saying that your car, insured with Churchhill is not insured because the car behind you is insured with "Sheilas Wheels"

GNAS insurance is a very grey area at the best of times. I get the impression that the insurers like it like that. In the event of a claim the insurers take each case on its own merits and wont say "yes, you re definitely covered" under any circumstances

[mk1]

Originally Posted by Random_guy

I was under the impression that you WERE NOT allowed to have this situation, as we were told that if the Royal company of Archers (who shoot on the same field as us but are members of the BLS and NOT of GNAS) were on shooting, then we (GNAS members) were not allowed on the field at all and were DEFINATLEY not allowed to shoot at the same time as it would effectively mean that none of the people on the field were insured at all......

It states explicitely in my copy of the GNAS rules SAP 1-1 April 2002 under "Those Insured"

"Members of the British Longbow Society while shooting on a GNAS ground and participating in traditional Longbow events."

We had several BLBS members shot with us when we had Club grounds in Edinburgh.

[bkupris]

I think traditional longbow events are two way rounds?

[TJ Mason]

Getting back to the issue of having archers who are not affiliated to ANY archery organisation...

One option would be to constitute an archery club in its own right, separate from the rugby club, consisting only of members who are affiliated to the GNAS. Then form an agreement with the rugby club that all members of the archery club will also be members of the rugby club and will have access to the rugby club's facilities. This will allow you to tell the GNAS that all members of the archery club are GNAS members, while retaining the relationship with the rugby club.

The non-affiliated archers would still be members of the rugby club.

Then to avoid insurance problems, keep minutes of when the archery sessions include only GNAS members (and so are covered by the GNAS insurance) and when archery sessions include archers who are not in the GNAS (and so are covered by the rugby club's insurance). These minutes should be made in advance of the sessions taking place. If you're not bothered about having GNAS insurance at the club, you could just make one minute stating that all archery sessions will be covered by the rugby club's insurance and not by GNAS insurance.

[SVL]

Originally Posted by TJ Mason

One option would be to constitute an archery club in its own right, separate from the rugby club, consisting only of members who are affiliated to the GNAS. Then form an agreement with the rugby club that all members of the archery club will also be members of the rugby club and will have access to the rugby club's facilities. This will allow you to tell the GNAS that all members of the archery club are GNAS members, while retaining the relationship with the rugby club.

The above is exactly how the Cockermouth club is run.

NOW just to throw a spanner in the works, how certain are you that the archery activities are covered by the rugby club insurance..... have you checked the small print and asked the insurance company directly ? I know I would want to have something in writing for peace of mind.