Does GNAS need to recosider the dress code?

[Thunk]

Originally Posted by Dave

I agree with a lot you say Furface, but it wasn't until I became actively involved as a club secretary that I actually found out when and where a lot of these meetings were taking place. Yes, I could have read Archery UK magazine to get the details but to be honest the type's so small and it's so badly laid out that I find it painful to read. (Bang goes any chance of a mention of AIUK.... )

Perhaps club secretaries should be more active in promoting meetings within their club. Yes, a percentage of the membership won't bother attending meetings, but it'd be nice if they were given the opportunity to. I'll certainly be thinking about this in the coming year.

So is it apathy, or lack of information?

HAVING POSTED THE ABOVE, DAVE ASKED FOR ANY DISCUSSION TO BE CONDUCTED IN A SEPARATE THRREAD TO THE POLL - SO HERE IT IS!

This is certainly one reason for the lack of attendance at meetings by anyone other than those on the committee. Another is that getting attendance at a meeting for a national organisation is very difficult; for all but a small minority it means travelling a fair distance, and if the only involvement is to confirm the officials in place for another year and vote on retaining the auditors, there isn't a lot of incentive. The only people who will attend are those with some sort of grievance about which they feel strongly enough to put themselves out.

If GNAS really wanted to ascertain the true strength of feeling regarding the dress code, then the only way to do so would be to have club secretaries conduct a poll within their club and then have an independent body collate the results. Of course, this would require them to do away with the silly rule mentioned earlier in this thread that says there are two classes of membership - individual (ie, you pay twice and so get a vote), and club, where your membership fee is collected together with your club membership, but does not entitle you to a vote. If GNAS has 28,500 members, I wonder what proportion of them are entitled to vote anyway; and if the proportion is as small as I suspect, can any organisation so constituted be considered democratic?

My personal view on the dress code is that we need one; I think everyone can imagine some form of dress which they would not wish to see on a shooting line. But I firmly believe that instead of a code which restricts clothing to not just white or green, but a particular shade of green at that, we should have a code which states quite clearly what is not allowed. In my opinion it would proscribe camouflage gear, denim jeans,
plunging necklines and specify a minimum length for shorts - say, half-thigh length. Other than specific cases like these, they should rely on the common sense of the organisers to ensure that the image of archery is not compromised by unsuitable dress styles.

Look at the vid clips of the Korean archers (and others) that are available on Miika's website - I think Marcus provided a link to them in another thread. Would they be allowed to shoot in a GNAS tournament? I think not. But is their dress offensive; unsuitable; of a type or style which might bring archery into disrepute? Again - I don't think so.

[Alex Greig]

I do not think that the dress code puts of newbies, as I do not know of a club that requires adhearence to the dress code for club shoots.

Clothing does not become an issue until you want to compete in competitions.

Originally Posted by Alex Greig

I do not think that the dress code puts of newbies, as I do not know of a club that requires adhearence to the dress code for club shoots.

Clothing does not become an issue until you want to compete in competitions.

Good point Alex.

[Rik]

Originally Posted by thunk

If GNAS really wanted to ascertain the true strength of feeling regarding the dress code, then the only way to do so would be to have club secretaries conduct a poll within their club and then have an independent body collate the results.
<snip>
Look at the vid clips of the Korean archers (and others) that are available on Miika's website - I think Marcus provided a link to them in another thread. Would they be allowed to shoot in a GNAS tournament? I think not. But is their dress offensive; unsuitable; of a type or style which might bring archery into disrepute? Again - I don't think so.

Well, actually, GNAS carried out a National poll (through Archery UK, or whatever it was called then) on the dress code.
The results showed that the majority of people wanted a change in the dress code. GNAS announced that it showed that the majority of the people wanted to keep the dress code - a result they achieved by splitting the "anti" votes into two groups, each smaller than the "status quo" group... <sigh>

On the "bright" side, this may be what led to the abortion known as "club colours" - I don't think I could have designed a worse scheme than that if I tried.

Foreign Nationals can compete in non-GNAS colours, so long as they are the correct colours for *their* national governing bodies, at any competition shot under FITA rules (FITA *s, 70m rounds, FITA18s, FITA 900s etc).

My personal opinion is: Scrap the dress code for non-FITA competitions (where FITA rules apply).

[Max]

Originally Posted by thunk

we should have a code which states quite clearly what is not allowed. In my opinion it would proscribe camouflage gear, denim jeans,
plunging necklines and specify a minimum length for shorts - say, half-thigh length. Other than specific cases like these, they should rely on the common sense of the organisers to ensure that the image of archery is not compromised by unsuitable dress styles.

.

I am in full agreement with Thunk here, but the problem with placing the decision of unsuitable dress upon the judges or organisers does place them in a difficult and possibly confrontational situation. At least at present, it is fairly clear what is and is not acceptable under the rules, which depersonalises it. I like tradition, but even I get a bit embarrassed after a shoot walking nito a pub in my whites and having 90% of the pub turn round and stare. It would be nice to have a bit more choice in the dress code (at least something that was avaiable on the high street) and still maintain good dress sense on the shooting line.

[wingate_52]

On joining my club, I was advised of the dress code, white and or green. I went for the white option, trousers, socks, footwear, shirt, tops etc. Monthly medals, club comps etc were occasions when to wear the appropriate clothing. Wet weather wear and frostbites being the only exception to the rule. However only a few wear the correct colours, a token white t-shirt or a green polo shirt as a concession. I feel this is a poor standard. Going to non-club competitions, the shooting line always wears the correct clothing. I suppose it is up to the club captain or committee members to "enforce" the rules. Are you and your club members properly dressed for club shoots/competitions?

[Rik]

Originally Posted by Max

I am in full agreement with Thunk here, but the problem with placing the decision of unsuitable dress upon the judges or organisers does place them in a difficult and possibly confrontational situation. At least at present, it is fairly clear what is and is not acceptable under the rules, which depersonalises it.

ROFL!
You've obviously not met up with a judge obsessed with the "right sort" of green...

I can see some merit in a few dress rules like "no open toed sandles" and "no camoflage clothing on a field course" from a H&S perspective. But why no jeans? Perfectly practical work wear.

As for image - I don't think archery has an image to spoil. An image problem? maybe...

As for the question of dress only becoming important when people are to start going to competitions... Well, yes... but when is that? Hopefully only a few months (at most) after starting to shoot, so it becomes an issue pretty quickly, and most likely at a time when people are fussing over buying kit as well.

[andrew.paterson]

Originally Posted by Rik

ROFL!
You've obviously not met up with a judge obsessed with the "right sort" of green...

To give an example how rediculous the 'green' rule is a while ago GNAS was asked to print the correct colour of green on the cover of the Archery Magazine. In the end this was dropped as it was felt that the correct green could not be printed! I know printers can match just about any colour in the rainbow, so if it was too difficult for them to get the correct colour...

GNAS do not have a colour palette that we as members have to comply with. So when I spend £40 to buy some trousers and £20 on a top I cannot say with absolute certainty that it is the correct green and I have wasted £60 (or in fact the correct white - how many people have seen archers wearing crickets whites which are a right ugly colour). It just has to be "dark green" as stated in the rules, how blooming dark is dark!

[Rik]

Originally Posted by andrew.paterson

To give an example how rediculous the 'green' rule is a while ago GNAS was asked to print the correct colour of green on the cover of the Archery Magazine. In the end this was dropped as it was felt that the correct green could not be printed! I know printers can match just about any colour in the rainbow, so if it was too difficult for them to get the correct colour...

GNAS do not have a colour palette that we as members have to comply with. So when I spend £40 to buy some trousers and £20 on a top I cannot say with absolute certainty that it is the correct green and I have wasted £60 (or in fact the correct white - how many people have seen archers wearing crickets whites which are a right ugly colour). It just has to be "dark green" as stated in the rules, how blooming dark is dark!

Originally, the green was specified as 3 distinct shades (one of which was "bottle" green IIRC). I can't recall if they supplied pantone numbers or just dye colurs...

The "green strip" thing was farcical, as it turned out that the printers couldn't guarantee the same shades of green appearing from issue to issue, or even from magazine to magazine! And it wasn't even according to the rules, as they just said "dark green". But someone in the judging hierarchy decided to try and nail it down tighter...

FITA continually points out to it's judges, that their sole reason for existence is to enable competitors to shoot. Hence in most interpretations they should allow the "benefit of the doubt". Maybe GNAS should issue a ruling along the lines of "if it could remotely be called dark green, it's allowed"...

[English Bowman]

People need to realise that it's club tournament organisers that are requesting that we wear green and white, not the GNAS. If the shoot is not record status then dress rules do not apply. The organisers are requesting that we wear green and white.

Do GNAS need to make it clearer than this?
"(a) Members of the Society shooting and officiating at tournaments granted National or World Record Status by GNAS are required to wear the accepted dress of the society as detailed below."