new archers in our club.A sign of the times ??

[grimsby archer]

Originally Posted by John (OSF)

Next time your in Oban Tom , give me a ring and we'll go fishing or water-skiing (bring your own suit though )

John, forgive my curiosity but whereas you obviously see archery as a challenge and have presumably always worked to improving yourself (in an archery context) do you fish and/or waterski with the same competitive philosophy, or is fishing/waterskiing just something you "do" for fun?

Failing to achieve ones personal goals is incredibly disillusionising (what?) and we tend to put ourselves under immense pressure to perform. I can see how fishing (or waterskiing, though perhaps not at the same time) as a hobby that you can do when ever you feel like it, with no personal best to beat, is a very attractive proposition.

Forgive me if you are a competitive angler, or regularly make attempts on the water speed record, or whatever competitive waterskiiers do. I was just meandering down thought row.

On the subject of good and bad advice, there are two(probably more) types of advice. Advice that the "giver" can explain and Advice that the "giver" was given and just accepts as being self evident truth (there is a lot of it about)
Of that advice some is good, some is rubbish and some may be good or rubbish for you.

[Rhys]

Originally Posted by jules

I have to agree. I am often amazed by how many beginners seem to think they can get free coaching after completing a beginners course. What other sport offers free instruction, why do some people think archery should be different? Of course all our club memebers are happy to offer advice about kit, basic tuning etc.. but shouldn't we all be encouraging beginners to help themselves. Get them to read books, watch videos, join AIUK!! The more you put in the more you get out.

I can see what you mean about people doing some work on their own but I wouldn't feel in the slightest bit offended if someone expected some advice from me, if people aren't willing to help out new members you cant complain if they don't end up staying on!

At some level it does become a personal thing, but there are so many people coming onto AIUK and asking so many questions that are very difficult to answer over the internet, what those people need is some help from someone at a club. I am almost entirely self taught tbh and ruth rowes book is an excellent starting point, but people still need some supervision. People who have a book and the internet can get depressed and confused just as easily as someone without. You cant learn to shoot from the huge amount of posts on AIUK, of which a huge proportion are subjective and opinionated.

[jules]

Originally Posted by Rhys

I can see what you mean about people doing some work on their own but I wouldn't feel in the slightest bit offended if someone expected some advice from me, if people aren't willing to help out new members you cant complain if they don't end up staying on!
.

We are always delighted to help with advice and assistance, and I think our club is a really friendly place. There is a core of members who put in a huge amount of work with the new members. I don't think we don't "convert" beginners due to lack of help or friendliness. Most give it a try and then drift off, archery either bites you or it doesn't I suppose. It's sad, I love archery so much I can't understand anyone who doesn't. That said I can't stand football!

[Rhys]

Exactly, thats what people need!

All I'm saying is that I've seen some people left entirely to their own devices and so many more of them will pack it in.

[oldy]

As it was me who started all this I would like to clarify myself a bit.Our club has a qualified coach and some very experienced archers doing the teaching also we keep an eye on all the new and old members shooting .Plus we always explain to new members that if they want or need help they just have to ask,as in my experience when you give an archer advice and they dont think they need it, rightly or wrongly it's asking for trouble,so tact is needed. Two more little stories ,last year we put on our annual have ago for charity but with an added incentive of a free archery course for the person who put up the highest score of the day.It was well supported with several people having lots of goes in order to win. The interesting thing is that the winner plus partner never turned up to claim their prize even after I phoned them.Also we lost our ground at my previous club so we split up with 90% of the membership moving to a new ground a long way from where I live,which is why I never went.Two years later I met someone from that club and none of the original members were still shooting.

[MATTeL]

Originally Posted by jules

I have to agree. I am often amazed by how many beginners seem to think they can get free coaching after completing a beginners course. What other sport offers free instruction, why do some people think archery should be different? Of course all our club memebers are happy to offer advice about kit, basic tuning etc.. but shouldn't we all be encouraging beginners to help themselves. Get them to read books, watch videos, join AIUK!! The more you put in the more you get out.

Oh for goodness sake stop preaching and generalising like this.

I assume you do realise everyone has different learning styles, personally I am not a theorist. Therefore learning skills from books and videos is not the way I prefer to learn. I have a massive leaning to be an activist, learning from doing hence I prefer someone to actually coach or offer practical advice that is suited to me.

I have never said I would want coaching for free, in fact at my club I have offered to pay for additional one to one coaching to help me with my particular issues.

The advice offered on AIUK while for the most part great and of high quality can also be shouted down by those thinking they know what they are talking about or contradicted by people that have another view. While differing views makes the owrld go around when you are starting out all this does is cause confusion and eventually resentment with the sport.

Personally I have trusted sources for advice and listen carefully to what they say, other advice is listened to compared to the trusted advice and either taken on easily, tried out or rejected.

What you cannot say though is all people operate in the same way, at the same way or learn in the same way to do so is to ignored the basic premise that humans are individuals.

[Trunkles]

My threepennorth: I think it is probably part of the instant gratification that "everyone" thinks they should get. When they don't become master bowman with the club kit then they get bored unless they have got the fully formed virus like me. Another reason - parents often start with their children and children can be fickle especially when they start coming out in spots, wanting to be in the in crowd, and not feeling odd/different. So when the child starts going to do other things then it is difficult for the parent to attend on their own rather than being dad's/mum's taxi to the latest fad. I know there are committed juniors but I am thinking about the average novice. I have done a couple of shoots lately without Tiny as he did not fancy doing them so you never know - I could be a casualty soon.

[jules]

Originally Posted by MATTeL

Oh for goodness sake stop preaching and generalising like this.

I apologise if you think I was preaching and generalising. I seem to have upset a couple of you today, it really isn't something I wanted to do. This thread certainly has brought out some very strong feelings.

Agreed everyone is different and learn in different ways, my point was about encouraging beginners in a variety of ways.

I think Trunkles has a good point about instant gratification, and the parent/junior thing definately rings a bell.

[Watch_Man]

Our club gets most new members through the club website and some through interest generated at have-a-go's. We offer field and target with GNAS, EFAA, NFAS all being welcome.

We do suffer dropout as most clubs and we also find that some will shoot only indoors and some outdoors. Our membership is around 70 with about 12 or so 'visitors'

Our membership fees are only £20 a year for adults and that covers 24hr access to our club field and because we have our own insurance there is no GNAS fee to pay if you only want to shoot on our club grounds.

I think that one common issue is that the children have so many demands on their time and archery has to compete against everything from football to dancing. This of course also affects parents who are the 'taxi drivers'

I'd like to think we are a reasonably succesful club and I would say the most influential factors are:

• Getting out and about at local fetes and events through the summer
• Offering have-a-go's at the club to local clubs and societies
• Keeping our website up to date with lots of news -makes archery look more modern and accesible.

[ben_e71]

Originally Posted by Watch_Man

[*]Keeping our website up to date with lots of news -makes archery look more modern and accesible.[/list]

This is a good point I am not young (36) but I am definitely web savvy. I place a lot of stead on company / club / group websites. I know it is easy to window dress a website but if it is being regualrly updated and looks good and has good info it goes a long way to attracting people.