Club Records Officers

[meta]

Hi,

I don't know if this is the right forum, but have developed a database driven web site for Club Records Officers (me) in such a way that the application/web site can used by any club. Take a look at the home page:

STS Home Page

Currently:

• There are two clubs: Eccles AC and a 'TEST' club for playing with.
• Lady, Gent, RC & Comp only
• Outdoor rounds only
• Updated with the new for 2008 Compund classifications
• Entry of scores by mobile phone possible
• Free

I am looking for a couple of club records officers who would like to play/use the application to help iron out any errors, bugs, interface issues etc. I am looking for feedback.

If you would like to play with the site, you can add/delete data into Bowmen of Testing by using 'phil' and 'phil' for the username and password.

Tell your club records officer. Let me know what you think...

Get back to me if you would like me to set up an account for your club.

meta

[moo-mop]

Reverse engineering can also be a violation of copyright - if you are not a lawyer don't say you haven't been warned.

[meta]

Hi,

Intellectual property can be protected in three ways: copyright, trademark and patent.

The D.Lane/GNAS handicap tables are protected by copyright from reproduction, but the STS application does not *reproduce* the tables.

The logic behind the tables has not been patented. Anyway, there are some very minor differences behind the STS hcap tables and the D.Lane tables.

The STS database uses GNAS tables for awarding classification.

meta

[MrM]

I have just tried it, entered 1037 for a lady compound archer on Ladies FITA and it came back as 2nd Class instead of 1st class

[moo-mop]

In hindsight - I think this is probably OK given, that as mentioned, it's not spot on!

Can I recommend everybody who develops these sort of applications write to GNAS and say that we are not happy with the situation of copyrighted handicap tables and wish them to sort it out even if that means eg using Australia's. The more people that do this, the more chance they do something and the better we can develop useful applications that can be spread throughout the archery community.

[Aside: I've done one myself for records, tourney reports and handicaps but mine is still not perfect as to cope with second sessions, juniors etc etc makes makes these things really tricky, and I won't dare publish it as it does need to do the handicaps correctly to be useful and then I'm just not sure where I stand]

[meta]

Hi MrM,

The compound classification scores have all gone up for 2008.

Ladies compound 1st class is now Hcap 38 (= 1092).

Try: 1091 = 2nd class. 1092 = 1st class

meta

[Flying Whale]

Originally Posted by meta

Hi MrM,

The compound classification scores have all gone up for 2008.

Ladies compound 1st class is now Hcap 38 (= 1092).

Try: 1091 = 2nd class. 1092 = 1st class

meta

Try entering the same score (1037) with the date for the round set to 31/12/2007. It still shows as 2nd class. On that date it should have been 1st class.

Unfortunately club archers tend to hang on to their scores for long periods before sending them in (at least to me). Need to be able to deal with both sets.

[MATTeL]

Originally Posted by Flying Whale

Unfortunately club archers tend to hang on to their scores for long periods before sending them in (at least to me). Need to be able to deal with both sets.

Maybe you just need to train your archers to submit their scores in a more timely fashion.

[Flying Whale]

Originally Posted by MATTeL

Maybe you just need to train your archers to submit their scores in a more timely fashion.

The similarity between "training" archers and herding cats is striking. By its nature archery is an individual sport!!

Not trying to start a fight here. I agree, and I do talk to persuade the archers to hand them in immediately. In fact since I spend a lot of my time there, I usually hang around and bug them at the end of a session!

Coming back to the point. I was only pointing out the issue to the author so that he can make sure to take it in to account. I have also written records software for our own club use and know it is something you have to take in to account.

The other issue that is more contentious is what happens to a junior archer that changes age group in 2008. The GNAS rules say that they have to be initially re-assessed using their existing scores, but using their new age group. Should this be using the classifications when the round was shot, or in 2008??


Overall I think it is a nice idea. I think some of the implementation would not be the way I would do it, but that's always the way with software.

I would still be careful about whether or not the whole issue of handicaps is really as clear cut as the author seems to think. The author may be correct, but if D. Lane decides to take legal proceedings it could get expensive. I have no idea whether that is likely, since I do not know D. Lane (it may also depend on whether any money is being made). I also wonder about the use of them if the values have some slight differences. As Moo-mop pointed out, does this make them less than totally useful? We would not be able to use them in our club, since we need to provide GNAS handicaps for our county and regional postal leagues. If the numbers may not be consistent, then they would all have to be checked by hand.


Thanks for letting us see the site meta. Interesting.

[moo-mop]

Juniors are a nightmare in automated handicap/records systems - so many different rounds can give distance records and I've left the junior records off our website for now.

In my software it a required field for the records officer to record the GNAS group every time a score is submitted, and I can record the subtly different FITA group for FITA rounds too (ie junior, cadet, masters).

But... one of the main purposes of my system is to also create tournament reports and I've got to add more fields to explain that they are a junior for records but are not a junior for the purpose of the report! Hence this report is wrong... sigh

Hence, writing these things is more complex than it first appears and I applaud this effort.

btw I'm confused about JMB (as reading some things it appears they've gone back to the system of needing four scores but some can be at club shoots).