Whos job is it?

[spavo]

The last two comps I have been two one of which I was the tournament organiser I couldn't get the arrows out of the target from a compound archers I ended up cutting my knuckles against the target when straining at the first comp (straw boss) the second one I couldn't get the compound arrows out again and ended up with a blister on my index finger foam boss.

I feel the only fair way of doing it is to rotate through out the day or a weekend on a FITA with 4 archers on the target and 4 distances you can work out the maths. If an archer has a problem doing the maths then some else can do it he or she only needs to record the arrow values

For less able archers I have no problem in pulling their arrows out of the target, but I do feel in a tournament (if the archer hasn't got an assistant) then it would be nice for the TO to perhaps tell you before and thus giving you the option to refuse.

to answer another point if some is injured and can't pull their arrows, then surely they can't shot??

and finally a little story.

Once upon a time (no this is for real)
I have shot before with a compound archer with 60lbs draw weight who refused to pull his arrows, myself and the rest of the target struggled to pull out the arrows with the archer looking on after two ends we pulled our own arrows and walked away leaving all the compound archers in the target he soon helped pull them out.

[rstamp]

Being a compound archer I always offer pull my arrows unless reluctantly voted into the task of scoring, particularly in the case of the straw bosses.

Shooting a 60lb bow is not only legal but quite common and these bows have been around for some time (I have one from the late 80’s) this should be a concern of the manufacturers (when designing) and the applicable equipment officer (when purchasing), so when you attend a shoot where it becomes necessary to request the help of two additional people to pull your arrows it is quite clear that the bosses are by no means fit for purpose.

The potential for damage to both the archer and their equipment is most defiantly related to the hardness of the boss.

Personally I carry two sets of arrows x10 for Foam and ACE for straw, mainly because I am to tight fisted to risk having to replace the x10 after shooting into hard straw bosses, something I have had the displeasure of experiencing. “Walking up to the boss hoping that you still have enough serviceable arrows to finish the day” does not make for a fun day and furthermore watching your arrows being bent into so many different angles while the helpful fellow target members assist you is a little unsettling. Don’t get me wrong I am always grateful for the assistance and thanks to those who have helped in the past and to those who will in the future.

Recently at a shoot it was necessary for two or more archers to pull the arrows from our boss and not all where compound arrows belonging to male archers. The situation was such that we had to rotate and take turns at pulling lest some of us end up with damaged shoulders. Point in case the target next to us had a female compound archer shooting 40lb’s and it still took 2 people to extract the arrows.

I feel that the root problem is as indicated by others, the straw bosses are becoming harder and the alternatives are not getting any cheaper.

Compound or otherwise it is only good manners to offer to extract your own arrows or to make alternate arrangements, most archers are of such moral fibre that when asked buy a genuinely disadvantaged person for assistance would not turn them down whether in a comp or not.


PS I will be returning to the particular shoot next year but will be sporting a special set of FMJ’s to ease this exact problem.

[acehero]

I was at the Bronte York round on Sunday and our boss was hard as nails. It took three of us to pull some of the arrows out. The recurvers we could usually manage with just two of us but the arrows from the compound shooter were a nightmare! We got through the day ok but by packing up time I'd developed some nasty arthritic-type of pain in the top two knuckles on my right hand. As it doesnt hurt at all when i shoot, but like hell if I try to grip something, I think it must have been from the effort of gripping and pulling arrows all day.

[Murray]

Originally Posted by krela

Equally I could argue that it's not fair for me to have to find someone else to come along and do it for me as a helper (in fact it's against the law of the disability discrimination act to require me to do so).

I'm not sure that's entirely true. See The Disability Discrimination (Private Clubs etc.) Regulations 2005.

Lots of interesting views on here... some good experiences of helpful people doing their best to assist those who are less able, and some good examples of people simply taking the p***.

I've pulled many a time for archers who couldn't, for whatever reason, make it to the target, but I think I would have to decline if there was potential for causing me injury or excessive fatigue as a result.

So what we're saying here is that, in such circumstances, the responsibility may fall to the organiser? Are organisers aware of this?

[spavo]

something needs to be done about the targets but it needs to be the manufactures, foam bosses are expensive and difficult to store our club has a vast amout of strae targets but if we were to change to foam targets we would require more staorage added coast working party etc.

Their has to be another type of arrow stopping device that has been invented yet at a lo-cost (or we could all shoot clout?) Any ideas

[jet186]

Originally Posted by clickerati

Every comp I have attended, the person scoring has been exempt from pulling. Let's face it, scoring (for some like myself) is pants. I get stuck scoring a lot especially if I'm the only woman on a target. Fair enough, the gents *tend* to be stronger. But I have also been to comps where I (or someone else, for instance, a compounder) asked to pull my own arrows.

At last year's Bronte Double Fita, I scored and pulled Rainbow's arrows (she's a compounder) as she was on crutches and was tiring rather quickly just from the walk back and forth. She wasn't even on my target, but she asked nicely, and was happy to oblige on the occasional end when she needed help.

When I have entered tournaments, I always contact the organisers directly and explain my disability, they always say that it won't be a problem,that they will arrange someone to collect my arrows and score, in the past I have been fortunate to be placed on the same target as some of my fellow club mates namely, Slowhand and Neo, I would like to thank them for not only pulling my arrows but also scoring, I know that without their help and the help of others I would not be in a position to fully enjoy entering any archery tournaments. So to all concerned a very big Thank You

[moo-mop]

Originally Posted by spavo

something needs to be done about the targets but it needs to be the manufactures,

Problems with bosses should be highlighted in the judges reports for the shoots, apparently when this happens it also should mean it gets reported back to the manufacturers.

A particular shoot where the bosses causes persistent trouble (the Middlesex FITA) has for the past two years has used those terrible Italian bosses (to be honest these seem responsible for the majority of the issues) and now after complaints have promised Egertec straw this year - and to be honest Egertec are usually OK unless they are very new and very wet.

[clickerati]

We used the Italian bosses at Richmond for the Pagoda (read new and wet) and had a lot of complaints. However, we had an infestation of rats in the storage hut only weeks before and 16 bosses had to be replaced. There were only a couple of suppliers who could get us that many bosses in such a short time, so we were just happy to get some, no matter what brand!!

[krela]

Originally Posted by Murray

I'm not sure that's entirely true. See The Disability Discrimination (Private Clubs etc.) Regulations 2005.

You've highlighted a very small part of the DDA relating to physical barriers and the physical accessibility of services.

* Since 2 December 1996 it has been unlawful for sports clubs to treat disabled people less favourably for a reason related to their disability;
* Since 1 October 1999 sports clubs have had to make "reasonable adjustments" for disabled people, such as providing extra help or making changes to the way they provide their services; and
* From 1 October 2004 sports clubs may have to make other "reasonable adjustments" in relation to the physical features of their premises to overcome physical barriers to access.


There is a duty of care to clubs under the 1999 part of the DDA to provide reasonable adjustment to people with disabilities to give them equality of use of the clubs services.

The duty of care to make reasonable adjustment is the clubs, not the disabled individuals. Thus the club or tournament host is responsible for finding a way of scoring / pulling a disabled persons arrow, not the disabled person themselves. Assuming of course that their disability hampers them in that way. If it doesn't they can pull their own arrows!

To demand that a disabled person should bring / find own helper is to put extra restrictions on their ability to access the services that don't apply to non disabled people. It removes their equality of access, which is unlawful.

Yes, that does put an extra burden on clubs and tournament organisers but that is the law. In all reality clubs should have an equality document outlining how they deal with such things and I believe the GNAS is working on such a document for the sport as a whole.

The only real sticking point is the definition of 'reasonable adjustment'. Is it reasonable for a club/tournament to have some kind of mechanism for scoring / removing the arrows of someone who can't walk to and from the target? Yes, I think so!

This doesn't however have any bearing on people who shoot 60lb compounds then moan that they might hurt themselves removing their own arrows, or people who plain can't be bothered. That's a separate issue.

I hope this clears up some confusion.

[mk1]

We ladies tend to take turns - alternating distances - with scoring and pulling.

I'm quite happy to help pull my arrows when I'm scoring and happy to help with anyone elses if they get stuck, but if an odd arrow is difficult I'll be one of the first to nab a passing gent of suitable stature to help and plenty of my fellow women seem much stronger than me on the arrow pulling bit so its great being on with those that shoot a heavier poundage them me

If someone is sporting a genuine injury or a junior isn't up for pulling as long as they can score I don't mind. Quiet often people have a favoured side or one that's working better than the other and thats OK too.

Worst case scenario is when its raining and the arrows are slippy and the boss is getting tight, and we're all hunting through our arsenal of arrow pullers to find the ones the will grip.