Do judges (U.K.) slow up shoots?

[its my party and]

Originally Posted by Old Bloke

Leigh, I'm not questioning the role that judges have at a shoot and the contribution they make, but more of the time they take to clear themselves from the shooting area. From recent experience, all archers are ready to shoot and behind the shooting line but for some reason the judge(s) are ambling back to the line before blowing their whistle..if they were to speed their walk up a little, over the period of a York, say, an hour could be crimmped off the finnishing time.

Im afraid I have not seen this either in a York or smaller events in my region or any region I have visited! Judges are very friendly people who give their time weekend after weekend. Our normal band of Judges and really on the ball and overall their friendly banter actually keep the shoot rolling along nicely without upsetting anybody. I gentle reminder here and there perhaps if the usual suspects are left on the line. If they do see people holding the shoot up they have powers to put a clock on the shoot I believe. As for the walking back slowly its to protect archers who may be have had a problem and are slower back than yourself. Im sure they no longer want to be on a windy wet field longer than is possible. It seems to be a local thing you have noticed. Perhaps you should take this up personally with the Judges in your area and tell them your feelings! Im sure you could find the next meeting from the very informative judges website. But don't ask for too many line cutter afterwards!

[its my party and]

Originally Posted by Robin the Hood

Does this time reduction apply to the York / Hereford or to all the GNAS rounds i.e National,Western etc.....

Paul...

I believe it is to be experimented with at some point later in the year but nothing has been decided yet. Search Furface's posts on it earlier last month.

[andrew.paterson]

Originally Posted by Watch_Man

Shoot me down in flames if you want but someone actual told me at Lincoln that they had timed it and that the ladies would have finished the FITA star about 30 mins before the gents if they had been shooting on seperate fields.

Thats because the guys have to take it easier during the shoot, because they know they have to help the ladies move their targets

Getting back to OBs original point though I can see the inferance that some judges were not too nimble on their feet nowadays. The thing is there aren't too many of them about, so most TOs have a limited selection. Judges are required to go to the targets as well to resolve disputes. And as GNAS has opted out of the FITA ruling on arrow value changes, as we are not trusted to get it right, so the judge has to go up and down the line as well.

With the current lack of judges available I can't see somthing being introduced where a judges ability to walk 90m in x seconds, but it really should be a requirement, especially for WRS and BRS events.

[Old Bloke]

I'll ignore the first 75% of your post IMPA as it is not relevant to my thread. I will mention it to any judges I see who are, in my opinion, delaying the restart of shooting and making the day longer than it ought to be. They simply might not be aware of their actions. And if a judge calls one of my arrows out just because I have mentioned the time they are taking to get back to the shooting line might be excessive, then they shouldn't be a judge. An arrow is in or out no matter who shot it. And for what it is worth, at the Target shoots I have been to this year, I am not alone in my findings.
It would certainly help those archers who, having shot two days in tiring conditions and who have a long journey driving home, to be safer bunnies. Maybe it has never occured to the judges that they are taking excessive time in what they do concerning the walk back to the shooting line.
Yes, a judges time is taken up with all matter of things, which they address correctly and it takes what it takes concerning the time and I have no issue with that.

[Flying Whale]

Originally Posted by andrew.paterson

In view of the great weather we are having at the moment another time killer can be arrows in the grass.

We all miss, or we will miss at some time for whatever reason - archer or equipment. Sometimes though too much time is spent looking for the lost arrows. Surely misses can be searched for during the breaks in shooting? I know I would prefer to do that if I had a lost arrow. At a shoot I was at recently we had to wait over 10 minutes for someone to find an arrow, because they didn't have any spares!!! Come on archers if you are going to tournaments at least take enough kit with you for goodness sake.

I was at the same shoot, as you know. The time to look for arrows after sighters was absolutely excessive. I have no idea whey the judges let it go on that long. If someone had no spare arrows then they really should have been left to shoot with 5. What happens if they had a bouncer...?


It must be said that the people in charge of the metal detectors were less than useful. Having had a miss at 50 yards (long story), they did not manage to find it in the next 6 ends. I had spares, and was quite happy to shoot on. In the end one of the members of the club we were shooting at took over on the detector and found it in minutes. (I had asked if I could have the detector, and would have found it as fast but that did not seem to meet with approval)

Having volunteer OTC (or something similar) helped in moving targets.... but having them waving metal dettectors 12 inches above the grounds, and laughing every time it went beep when they put it near each others boots did not help on a windy day.

[Chumpzilla]

Originally Posted by pwiles1968

How is timing a York going to work then, All the York's I have shot you shoot3 retire someone else shoots 3 they retire repeat, you go onto the line and come off in your own time as and when you finish, obviously taking care not to disturb anyone either side of you.

Are we going to have a timed 2 minutes for 3 arrows then all change together?

Or are we going to shoot in 6 arrow ends in 4 minute time frame please say it is this .

IIRC it applies only to York/Herefords and will be the same format as a FITA, 6 arrows in 4 minutes.

[Thunk]

Perhaps there is also a difference in mindset. Most competitive archers will want to keep things moving; after all, it's difficult to maintain your focus when proceedings are constantly stopping and starting. Ther judges, bless them, are not competing. They probably have a more relaxed attitude, especially if they don't have too much aggravation to sort out.

Having said that, most judges will have been competitors in their time. Maybe they have forgotten what it's like?

The bottom line is - most judges are elderly former archers who no longer shoot but wish to maintain their involvement with the sport. Are we saying that if they can't run 100 metres in x seconds we don't want them? Because we certainly need judges, and if that's the case then the alternative is to tell active archers on a rota basis that they are not shooting in a particular tournament because it's their turn to be a judge. Fancy that scenario? No...I didn't think so.

Personally I'll go for the time limit. We do it in FITAs so what's the problem?
And as far as I'm concerned, if you're keen enough on your archery to travel to a tournament then you should also be keen enough to equip yourself with enough arrows. There should be enough time between ends to score, pull and maybe 30 seconds to retrieve any missed arrows in plain view. Arrow hunting should be done during a pre-arranged break in shooting. I also think that arrows should be registered at the start of a shoot and checked at the end - that way, nobody gets to leave a nasty little surprise on someone else's shared field...

[BeardedBowman]

[quote=Thunk;249129] Personally I'll go for the time limit. We do it in FITAs so what's the problem?
QUOTE]

The problem is that many archers, especially juniors who are still developing physically, are not able to shoot in ends of 6 arrows, because many require the rest between the 3 arrow ends to recover and to remove the lactic acid from their muscles.

If you want to shoot 6 arrow ends then shoot FITA, please leave GNAS rounds ALONE!

[Thunk]

There's not much point in telling me to leave GNAS rounds alone, I'm not the one who makes the rules!

However, I see your point - but I don't see why a time limit requires six arrow ends. There could be a time limit for shooting three arrows and clearing the line...but the original suggestion regarding time limits concerned the break between ends, which was what I was addressing.

[grimsby archer]

Surely under gnas rules there already IS a time limit for shooting 3 or 6 arrows (2 1/2 mins for 3 arrows according to my green book)?

Is this not being applied, or is it not the time to shoot arrows that is the problem. I certainly have been on target with someone taking 4 or 5 minutes to shoot 3 arrows and (despite complaints by me to the judge) continued to do so on the grounds that he sufferred "target panic"

Perhaps there should be a maximum time for collecting and scoring?
We cant base this on how fast a judge walks as more of them are zipping round the field at high speed on these battery powered scooters
Efficient field parties make a lot of difference (thanks to the guys at lincoln/emas dfs)

Watchman: (With my T/O hat on for that event) the ladies were much quicker and far more efficient/accurate in filling in score cards and running slips too. Perhaps its cause there were more men, therefore the statistical probability of a man being slower is higher. Mrs GA says men are just slower anyway. I say the ladies should be grateful for anything that lasts more than 3 minutes