Do judges (U.K.) slow up shoots?

[Watch_Man]

Originally Posted by grimsby archer

.......... Mrs GA says men are just slower anyway. I say the ladies should be grateful for anything that lasts more than 3 minutes

Does that include the shower

[Harlequin_UK]

Originally Posted by Watch_Man

Shoot me down in flames if you want but someone actual told me at Lincoln that they had timed it and that the ladies would have finished the FITA star about 30 mins before the gents if they had been shooting on seperate fields.

Isn't that just due to females being able to multi-task. ie walk and count whilst men can only do one at a time.

[Angry Gaz]

The responsibility for imperial shoots running so slow is solely down to the judges. At the GNAM this year, even though the weather conditions were pretty bad, in one end i remember being behind the shooting line having shot my 6 arrows, looking down the line and seeing a couple of archers that were still in the middle of shooting their 1st 3.

In that situation, it should be down to the judges to impose a time penalty on the archers for taking too long. Don't forget there is already a time limit of 2.5 minutes for shooting 3 arrows in the rules, but most if not all judges are reluctant to enforce the rule.

So even though archers do take too long to shoot, if the judges don't do anything about it, then nothing will change. I completely understand why archers take longer to shoot in bad weather. At the end of the day, we've all paid money to enter and want to get the best score possible, but all it does is wind-up the other competitiors. If you shot an arrow after the buzzer at a FITA you'd be penalised, but NEVER in an imperial round.

I for one welcome the proposed new timing for imperial rounds...

[steve58]

Originally Posted by Angry Gaz

In that situation, it should be down to the judges to impose a time penalty on the archers for taking too long. Don't forget there is already a time limit of 2.5 minutes for shooting 3 arrows in the rules, but most if not all judges are reluctant to enforce the rule.

I for one welcome the proposed new timing for imperial rounds...

There is at least one judge round here who will go and stand behind any slow archer with a stopwatch in hand... And one recurver was given a warning at the last County Champs, so it does happen.

What I would welcome is some sort of predictability to the timing for the end of a shoot, as a non-resident Dad who often has to get daughter back to ex, usually quite a long journey, being able to say confidently when we will get there is a big plus!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by steve58

There is at least one judge round here who will go and stand behind any slow archer with a stopwatch in hand... And one recurver was given a warning at the last County Champs, so it does happen.

At the GWAS Junior Champs last month one kid was docked an arrow for taking 2 min 38 seconds. Two others suffered several ends of the judge standing behind them with a stopwatch. They were very difficult, blustery, conditions and I thought (and I was not alone in thinking) that the judge was being unduly harsh.

John

[Thunk]

Perhaps if the time rule was regularly enforced in good conditions, there would be more scope for leeway when conditions are bad.

[not dead yet]

6 arrows in 4 mins on a york.. there goes your etiquette also. if i'm shootin 6 arrows on a york as soon as i've finished i'm off the line for a sit down.

[tel]

Originally Posted by JohnR

At the GWAS Junior Champs last month one kid was docked an arrow for taking 2 min 38 seconds. Two others suffered several ends of the judge standing behind them with a stopwatch. They were very difficult, blustery, conditions and I thought (and I was not alone in thinking) that the judge was being unduly harsh.

John

Just to balance this a little...
Yes the conditions were difficult - for everybody. A warning was given, then the ultimatum that if it continued the arrow score would be forfeit and it took longer each time. Interesting to note that it was perfectly possible to get them away in under a minute subsequently.

[spavo]

My 2 penny's worth (as a retired judge from the South West) and having read the vast majority of the reply's. I think it is a 50 / 50 situation.

But I would like to add that on a York / Hereford that the Judges impose timing on the archers, this is often ignored and sometimes the archers just play the system. IMO Time Cheats in DCAS this seems to be ignored, as a Judge at a record status shoot I gave the Lady P a time warning (this was not the first time I observed this) as in rule 304f(iv), to be told by MY colleagues that I should have let her get away with it as she was the lady P. Other Judges in DCAS will just give warning after warning.

An Example
On one occasion after pointing out to a Judge that an archer was taking 4+ min per end (3 arrows) to shoot and the Judge verified this gave them a warning, the archer for one or two ends shot to the time, then straight back to normal, myself and several other archers complain again to the Judge in charge (archer & Judge same club), but still the Judges did nothing, then after completion of the longest distance he got another friendly warning by a different judge and to cut a long story short he got a further warning from a different judge later on no action taken, this archer went on to win a prize for this. But this archer should have been removed from the shooting line as with 304 f(iv) That day I decided to hang up my Green Jacket.

One point I will make is the easiest way to ensure that no-one is behind the target is to be the last crossing the line, also it is etiquette to give the archers that have just crossed the line some breathing space, if this wasn't done then their would be more complaints.

To summarise tournaments can be sped up by implementing the following:-

The Archers

1. Take spare arrows to the Tournament, if missed multiple arrows in one end don't just pick them up and put them in your quiver stand them in the ground so the field party can see roughly were they have gone.

2. Don't stand 2 foot in front of the line checking scores.

3. Mark your tripod legs so you can put it down easy or share scopes.

4. don't leave scopes on the line, take them off.

5. Score you arrows before looking for missed arrows, score your arrows in groups of 3 allow time for the person recording your score to read them back and point to your arrows, this reduces miss calls.

6. Archers also you can walk back a bit faster

The Judges

1. Control the time spent looking for arrows.

2. Don't spend ages checking targets for unmarked holes on FITA'S, do one target at a time not the whole line

3. less able (mobility) Judges do the shortest distances (as with O.B.)

4. Judges walk back in a straight line, don't walk from target 1 to 20 on you way back


I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THINGS 100% CLEAR, WE NEED JUDGES AND NEW JUDGES, THEY DO A GREAT JOB AND WITHOUT THEM WE COULD HOLD TOURNAMENTS, PLEASE KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK, BUT IF READING THREAD'S LIKE THIS TAKE IT AS CONSTRUCTIVE, NOT NEGATIVE.

[not dead yet]

i know a judge that blew his wife off the line twice in a fita.


she agreed she was in the wrong. but i think he got his own tea.

recently heard a story where the judge incharge, changed a decision of 2 judges after the fact. now that is wrong. when it cost points to the archer in the end.