BASC and archery

[Ken Davies]

What did I start?

Anyhoo. Just had a email from our club sec saying he'd told the BASC we couldn't help. Which I think the majority here would say was the right.

Very happy.

I'm amazed at how heated this type of subject can be. Opinion is after all just opinion. It is very uncomon for anyone to change there opinion with just a few words and replies. People are all different with varied frames of personal reference as to what is right or wrong. That is how the world is. For this reason it would be unreasonable to fall out with anyone on here just because we don't agree.

I have thought a little more about this, my last reply was written quickly as I was going home. Perhaps now my brain in in gear I can add a little more.

As we all know archery is a very old form of weapon used for centuries, but as it stands the only form of archery that exsists in this country is "target" archery, in my case I would prefer to keep it that way, and I suspect public opinion will keep it that way too. I can be a little hot headed at times and perhaps over react when the word "hunting" is mentioned in the same context as archery. For me the two words are now worlds apart. We have had a pole on the feelings about archery for hunting before, there is no point in going over the same old ground again.

I do feel it unwise of this site to be used as a political soap box for animal rights campainers to do their thing or the pro hunting lobby too. As has been said before on here, that debate can be done much better elsewhere.

Lets all have a

Originally Posted by orius

Woah there folks,

I thought this interchange was about archery and its various forms and not to discuss the pro's and cons , rights and wrongs of other peoples LEGAL sports be it Hunting Fishing Shooting or needlework for that matter.I'm neither pro nor against hunting ,but do recognise the fact that they are a law abiding pastime when carried out in a legal way. I fear I detect a political statement brewing in this thread and recognise it as being a dangerous path to tread which could lead to the good harmony of these forums being disrupted. Lets keep the subjects for discussion total archery eh ? and let the anti hunting discussion carry on in Parliament or Trafalgar square where it is best suited.

Hi Orius,

As you will find out it's quite common for subjects to "go off topic" but it sorts it's self out in the wash. It's better than talking about Foot&ball, that's way of topic!

Originally Posted by Ken Davies

What did I start?

What did you expect Ken? It can get rough on here

[SLOWHAND]

Being a typical Libran I can often see pros and cons in most arguments.But there are some things I am convinced of , Bow hunting should never be made legal in the Uk, and as far as possible Archery should distance itself from any association with blood sports. I used to shoot indoor target Rifle and pistol many years ago, Both are Olympic sports and like Archery were run and enjoyed by responsible and safety concious people. I do not know of any crime or injury caused by a legally owned target Rifle or pistol.

And then Dunblane happened.

One psycopath ran riot with a pistol in a School and several children and adults were killed or injured. The result was that every legally owned pistol in the hands of private individuals was confiscated and destroyed. How would you feel if your bow was taken away and Archery was banned. If I thought that the banning of legally owned target Rifles or pistols or even bows would save the life of one child then I would be for it. But it has to be said that there is more gun crime now than ever before so the ban had no effect at all. It could also be said that if the psycopath in Dunblane didn't have a pistol he may have ran riot with a knife, sword (in my local high Street is a shop selling Samuri swords for about thirty pounds) Axe, you name it. My biggest fear is that someone will have a row with his neighbour, string his bow and go back and shoot him.Thats all it would take. Thank God a bow is not quite like a gun, it takes a modicum of coaching and practice to use it, although if the intended victim is only a couple of yards away.... Personally I would like to see it made manditory to produce a current GNAS card before a bow or arrows could be purchased, I'm sure Archeryshops would not mind, after all if archery was banned or had cripling restrictions imposed they would suffer.

Now before you think that I am anti hunting/hunters I would ljust like to say that I am sure that the vast majority of hunters are responsible and safety concious people who love their sport, love the countryside and do their level best to conserve and maintain it. I used to be (guess I still am) a carp angler. All of my gear was designed to be fish friendly and all of the fish I ever caught were returned to the water in good condition. It was in the anglers and the lake owners interest that the fish were healthy and well looked after. Nobody fought harder than anglers to ensure that our rivers and lakes were kept clean and pollution free so the fish could thrive. Land and water are just another resorce these days, if a lake didn't pay it's way with fishing then the owner may just fill it in so it could become another parking lot for a supermarket. Not just the fish but all of the other wildlife would be gone. I could go on about the release of Mink and Otters by well meaning animal lovers that have absolutely decimated native wildlife but enough for now!

[Jenny]

Originally Posted by SLOWHAND

One psycopath ran riot with a pistol in a School and several children and adults were killed or injured

Just a couple of corrections...a psychopath ran riot with 4 leagally owned guns and killed 16 children, 1 teacher and injured all but 1 of the other children in the class.

If I thought that the banning of legally owned target Rifles or pistols or even bows would save the life of one child then I would be for it.

You can say that now, but for all you know that law has saved the lives of countless children and adult, there's just no way of proving it.

I can't have a fully balanced view of the whole gun debate because I don't know anybody who has ever owned a gun. Perhaps they shouldn't have been banned, maybe just the ways in which you could legally obtain a gun should have been tightened up, I don't know.


~Jenny~

[Thunk]

Originally Posted by orius

Woah there folks,

I thought this interchange was about archery and its various forms and not to discuss the pro's and cons , rights and wrongs of other peoples LEGAL sports be it Hunting Fishing Shooting or needlework for that matter.I'm neither pro nor against hunting ,but do recognise the fact that they are a law abiding pastime when carried out in a legal way. I fear I detect a political statement brewing in this thread and recognise it as being a dangerous path to tread which could lead to the good harmony of these forums being disrupted. Lets keep the subjects for discussion total archery eh ? and let the anti hunting discussion carry on in Parliament or Trafalgar square where it is best suited.

The question is not whether hunting is or is not legal; or even whether it should or should not be. The question is: given that hunting with a bow IS illegal in this country, why should we wish to join with BASC and give the impression that it is a part of the hunting scene when it quite clearly isn't?

On a practical note - one reason why archery is relatively unregulated is because we regulate ourselves pretty well. Most archery is conducted through recognised clubs with due regard to safety, which is why there are so few accidents. If we start promoting it to the badger-baiters and hare-coursers of this world, there will be an increase in illegal and uncontrolled bow hunting, a few well-publicised accidents, someone will get killed, and the next thing we know, we will all be subject to the sort of licencing restrictions currently visited upon gun owners. Do we want any of that? Personally I think not.

[clickerati]

I don't own a gun, but I shoot target rifles and shotguns for trap shooting. The UK is very tight on it's laws and I know many of the club members didn't like it. I didn't know anything different, so it didn't bother me. I feel safe having to show ID and have a background check. Everything on the range is very safety conscious and there is a comfort in that. Everyone has to take training and everyone respects firearms and their power.

In Maine, I can go into a sporting good store and buy a gun in about 30 minutes. They do an FBI background check first, but it's same day. You do not need a permit to own a gun here. That said, Maine has one of the highest gun ownerships in the US and one of the lowest crime rates with guns. I wish I could say that for the rest of the US.

Look at Switzerland where every man must own a gun. There are very few gun crimes there.

What it comes down to is respect. It is the same with hunters. I don't hunt. I never will. I don't even eat red meat. I was anti-hunting for many years until I eventually lived and worked in a rural area. I learned about it, their way of life. The responsible hunters work hard on wildlife conservation. They hunt for the pot and give back to nature what they take. There's a difference between bloodsports and hunting. Killing for fun and killing for food.

I think it's the same of archery. There are safety rules and we all respect them and our weapons. I think the secret of understanding the different aspects here is just that - respect.

[SLOWHAND]

Originally Posted by Jenny

Just a couple of corrections...a psychopath ran riot with 4 leagally owned guns and killed 16 children, 1 teacher and injured all but 1 of the other children in the class.


You can say that now, but for all you know that law has saved the lives of countless children and adult, there's just no way of proving it.

I can't have a fully balanced view of the whole gun debate because I don't know anybody who has ever owned a gun. Perhaps they shouldn't have been banned, maybe just the ways in which you could legally obtain a gun should have been tightened up, I don't know.


~Jenny~

Can't see the point in correcting my first statement, you're saying the same as me albeit with more detail.

So would you say that bows should be banned because for all you know it may save the lives of countless children and adults there's just no way of proving it.

A target gun is different beast to a large calibre multi shot weapon as used at Dunblane. It can still be a deadly weapon (as can a bow), but I suspect that if ever God forbid a bow is used to commit murder or injury it wont be a fully equiped target bow with longrod, sights,twins etc.

You are right with your last statement, I found it very questionable why this individual was allowed to own the number and type of firearms that he had.

[Thunk]

I think this thread has probably run its course, but I'd just like to add one response to something that has come up in several posts.

Is a bow a weapon? Quite clearly some like to think of it as such. Quite clearly in history it was. But is it now?

Obviously, in the wrong hands a bow can be used as a weapon - a very deadly one. But so could a hammer. And a screwdriver. A pocket knife with a blade of more than three inches is classed as a weapon, but in my car tookit I have a screwdriver with a twelve inch blade. If I wanted to I could use that as a very deadly weapon. But it is not perceived as a weapon because that is not its primary purpose

The point I am making is that it is all down to perception. We use our bows as sporting equipment for target archery, whether that is a paper roundel, or an animal depiction as in field. If we start promoting archery in association with hunting, we skew the perception of a bow towards that of a weapon. And I don't think we would like the consequences of that.