A FITA 90m round...?

[SimonW]

Originally Posted by Marcus26

Making the targets smaller will make the archers better.

Shooting a FITA inner 10 sucked for the majority of compounders and the sport suffered for it. People (like myself) simply dropped out of the sport. When FITA introduced it I personally quit and went and played basketball instead. Had no interest in recurve and compound was simply no fun.
I don't mind it indoors, but outdoors it's a pain.

Isn't scoring only the X as a 10 the same as making the targets smaller (well at least for the 10 anyway)?

I would have thought that the top archers would welcome such a change in scoring as it differentiates them from good archers.

Simon

[disbloke]

Originally Posted by SimonW

Isn't scoring only the X as a 10 the same as making the targets smaller (well at least for the 10 anyway)?

I would have thought that the top archers would welcome such a change in scoring as it differentiates them from good archers.

Simon

The key thing to consider is the reason why the "inner 10" for compounds was dropped in the first place. It was because the majority of archers suffered because of it NOT because the top archers were easier to differentiate between. The top archers were still hitting scores only a little down on what they got before and you then had no way to seperate a tied score. Using X 10 9 allows a tie to be broken as it is very unusual to have 2 archers scoring the same number of X's.

[SimonW]

Originally Posted by disbloke

... The top archers were still hitting scores only a little down on what they got before and you then had no way to seperate a tied score. Using X 10 9 allows a tie to be broken as it is very unusual to have 2 archers scoring the same number of X's.

I find that hard to believe. I think the X only as a 10 must have hit scores badly. Obviously good archers were getting fewer "10's" but lots more 9's.

I assume this is what Marcus is referring to (but I say, "assume").

I'd be interested to see how scores are affected with this system. Marcus, would you care to share one of your FITA 70m scores or full FITA scores but subtracting 1 for every 10.

Simon

[LineCutter]

I'm not sure that using the X as a 10 would actually change anything for the top end archers - the scores would drop, but the deciding factor would be 10s rather than Xs. The irritation would be that a bunch of less able archers would get similar scores, by virtue of scoring 9s that were furthe from the centre.

I'm with the "make the whole thing smaller/further away camp. (& vote for the latter, since there is also an element of skill in coping with the conditions as well as the ability to set the arrow off in the correct direction).

[Jerry Tee]

Perhapps its time for a 110 meter distance in the round for compound shooters?

[Marcus26]

The problem with the inner 10 was that good archers (not world class) were going through 2 distances and getting 1-2 10's. This is not fun and very frustrating.
I don't keep my scorecards usually, here are the 70m from a recent club league
Name: Outter: Inner
Erika: 336: 324
Alan C: 329: 320
David: 331: 319
Marcus: 335: 329
Eric: 323: 312 (no X's)
Alan W: 350: 329

OK so really it proves nothing. Some people are better X count shooters than 10 shooters. I usually get high X counts but screw it up with a few 8's (I had 3 in one end in that round)
Erika shoot lots of 10's but low X count. For example she shot 118 for her last 12 arrows, 3 X's, 8 10's and an 8.
Alan W had an amazing day that day, but only got 6 X's. I had 8 but scored 15 points less.
So if we look at the difference with and without the inner 10, ignoring Alan W's score (because it skews the results)
Outter: 13 point spread
Inner: 12 point spread
Add his in and the Inner spread doesn't change, but the outter becomes a 27 point spread.

With the Indoor we have run a few shoots at club level and found that while the mid to lower end guys hate it, it actually benifits them greatly. For example I have shot 300's outter 10 with 14x's (284) while others have shot 293's with 17 X's.

So in summary the inner 10
• Is not fun, 60's become rare. I have never seen a 60 6X at 90, 70 or 60m.
• It does not do as desired, it compresses the scores.
• It does not seperate the archer who can shoot 59's outter 10 and the one who shoots 54's. (all golds)
• It will cost members. People will leave the sport if reintroduced.

I personally think leave the scoring and face size as it is. Yes you can now get knocked out shooting a 118 in matchplay, but so what? Don't shoot the 9's and you can stay in.
Moving the ranking round back to 90m may well be a solution, but then all you will do is create better 90m shooters.

If you want to get people in and staying in the sport you have to have the mid level archers believing that they can make it someday. (without going overboard).
I remember one of the guys at my club shot 3 points under my then 70m PB. He was a 1230 level archer. But shooting that score motivated him greatly because he felt he could catch me soon. That's great and that's what we want.
Meanwhile the Cadet I coach wins state comps by 100-200 points, kids drop out because they are so far behind. He now shoot 2 divisions higher and the kids are coming back again. (Sad, but true)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by disbloke

Using X 10 9 allows a tie to be broken as it is very unusual to have 2 archers scoring the same number of X's.

Chris White and I managed it at the Masters and tied for the 30m distance award: 358 scored, 34 tens and 17 X's.

Adam

[disbloke]

OK so more than one person has been getting a bit carried away with my comment that using X 10 9 means you are less likely to have have tie. I have to say though that Adam states his tie with Chris White was only for the 30m distance not the overall FITA round.

Below is a section of the FITA rules regarding tie breaks in Elimination matches:
For ties deciding the entrance to the Elimination Rounds, or in matches deciding the
progress from one stage of the competition to the next, or for deciding the medal
placements after match play competition, there will be shoot-offs to break the ties
(the system of the number of 10’s and X’s will not be used):

Then below how a tie is broken:

• A single arrow shoot-off for score (maximum of three shootoffs);
• If there is still a tie in the third shoot-off, the arrow closest to
the center of the target face will resolve the tie; or
• Successive single arrow nearest-to-the-center shoot-offs, until
the tie is resolved.

So to sum up, in International events as the Elimination round is used you could then be knocked out, using the inner 10 rule, by putting all 6 arrows in the large ten and your opponent scattering all over the 9 but clips one into the X. How would you feel then?

Why not change the target sizes fror the FITA round. Keep the 122cm for 90m, go to the 80cm for 70m, the 60cm for 50m and the 40cm for 30m (or even drop 30 altogether - it's too easy with a compound regardless of the target size.

Or change the distances and modify the target sizes: 90m - 122cm, 80m - 122cm, 70m - 80cm, 60m - 60cm. Marcus is correct. The smaller target encourages better shooting. I see it at the club evey time I can persuade archers to shoot the 80cm target at 50m. They whinge about it but their scores are usually as good as if not better than on the 122cm target.

By the way, SimonW, pistol and rifle shooters score the HIGHER score value if the hole is touching the scoring ring.

[Tony_zelah]

All this talk of changing parts of the gents FITA for the compounds, so lets all be honest how many of us have scored perfect scores at any of the FITA distances and perfects 36 X's some how I don't think there will be many so we all got a way to go IMHO before it need changing.