Coaching on the line - allowed or not?

[Rik]

FITA and GNAS rules are at cross-purposes on this matter.
FITA doesn't mind coaching, so long as it doesn't interfere with other archers, GNAS bans it outright... I suspect that GNAS will eventually come into line with FITA, it tends to in the end.

[munchkin]

Rik, I wouldn't bank on GNAS coming into line with FITA anytime soon... we still have to call a judge for writing scores down wrong, whereas we SHOULD be just signing the score sheet in agreement with the corrected score. (This is at FITA shoots.)
I could go on about the whole spotting/coaching thing, but it may read a bit snotty/big-headed...

[grantwomack]

I was under the impression that an international rule couldn't be overridden by a domestic rule... for instance, the wearing of whites at tournaments has to be allowed because FITA allows it.

GNAS tournaments are a different matter though...

[Random_guy]

I've been to a few FITA stars this year, and at the beginning of the year, we were told that because of the new FITA rule we could all agree and sign off any changes to arrow scores if mistakes were made. Then towards the end of the year we were told that GNAS had decided not to follow this rule and that a judge was still required to change the scores.

[tel]

I was at a record status fita yesterday and at assembly the judge clearly stated that the 'mark your own mistakes rule' had been trialled in the midlands and found to cause chaos, so GNAS had decided not to adopt it...anyone wish to clarify?

[greydog]

Originally Posted by tel

I was at a record status fita yesterday and at assembly the judge clearly stated that the 'mark your own mistakes rule' had been trialled in the midlands and found to cause chaos, so GNAS had decided not to adopt it...anyone wish to clarify?

Yup, heard the same thing, start of the year you could alter an arrow value if everyone on your target countersigned it, then by august you weren't allowed to as it had caused problems, so back to calling a judge over......

[Furface]

Originally Posted by ASW1973

it is generally accept at all levels of archery that the important part of that rule is the "doesn't interfere with other competitors part". It is well expected for indviduals to spot and give advice on where arrows land for other competitors and it is churlish to deny them that neither would any judge.
As to coaching, this is not tennis!! the individual archers may recieve coaching and information from other parties if:
A: it does not interfere with anyone else shooting
B: it is delivered in a non electronic way (actually a rule invented for safety same as not shooting with a walkman on).

I Have been a ratified coach at a few international events and have given information and spotted for my athletes during qualification and head to heads.
I have similarly done the job where ratification were not necessary at fita stars around the world and have never had a problem.
Please dont start using terms like "cheat" in these cases

If an archer is seeking to gain an advantage in a way that is expressedly forbidden by the rules, then what is it if not cheating? We may dislike the rules, butthen we change them, even if it takes a decade. Or do you wish us to become a sport where any rule may be broken if "it is generally accepted"
The GNAS ruling is explicit, and has been given earlier in this thread.
FITA rule 7.4.6 refers to "non-electronic coaching information". Spotting is not coaching. As a generalisation, you might say that coaching was strategic, helping with the longer picture or deeper picture; spotting is tactical - what effective change in technique is being introduced when the spotter says "aim up a bit"? Nothing. The purpose is to assist the archer to gain an illicit advantage over his competitors.
And then we come to the rule not yet mentioned. FITA rule 7.4.6.1 states "In the Olympic Round team event the three athletes in the Team and the coach may assist each other verbally whether they are on the shooting line or not. During the shooting, the coach may only coach from the coach's box". This sub-rule obviously makes this an exception.
So, to be utterly dogmatic, a) this thread was not about coaching but spotting and b) spotting in competition is Cheating

[Murray]

Originally Posted by Furface

this thread was not about coaching but spotting

I disagree - this thread was entitled "coaching on the line - allowed or not". Ffish clearly said there was all sorts of hand gestures going on - I don't think you can make the difference between spotting and coaching, as - in my opinion - they can all be part of the same thing - a coach watching where the arrows are going and then offering advice - is that spotting or coaching? not clear enough to make a ruling in my opinion.

Anyway, the GNAS rules are clear, therefore if it is a GNAS event. then GNAS rules apply. if it is a FITA event, then GNAS rules do not apply - I guess that's where it starts and ends. Where I'm confused is whether the GNAS rules apply to H2H events or not...

As for standing in the way of a scope - only a judge may tell a competitor where to stand or where not to stand...

[simon m]

I would have stood in the way regardless of being asked to move....but thats just me....If they want you to move then let them alert a judge....

I have to say the international versus national rules things causes some confusion.....

[Rik]

Originally Posted by Furface

So, to be utterly dogmatic, a) this thread was not about coaching but spotting and b) spotting in competition is Cheating

Well... to be pedantic... It's only cheating if there's a rule against it. There is in GNAS, there isn't in FITA...
If you let everyone do it, then there is no potential gain. If people are doing it at GNAS competition anyway then you're faced with the choice of:
a. changing the rules to let them do it
b. policing it so that people get penalised more often.
IMO (b) will likely just irritate the hell out of people, while (a) just codifies the status quo.