Disappearing beginners

[phillc]

I think that many of the beginners think that they are imposing on others by asking things. I let them know that thursday night is shooting for me but i am available at any other time for coaching,(club open 24/7)
I do try to get others to talk to and encorage them putting up short distance bosses between longer distance ones so that they don't feel put up the end away from the more experienced archers ( what about a badge that says I NEED HELP ) So the coaches know that they want help as some want to shoot recreationally and don't want coaches pestering them which can also put them off, and as time goes on perhaps they change to i'd like some coaching
I am trying to install a buddy sustem so that they have a more experienced archer who can answer questions about the club and archery in general and point them at a coach as and when needed (this more to make them feel part of the club)

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by chemistry

Can I add that the archery etiquette trotted out that "It is rude to offer help unless an archer ask for it.." isn't helpful in the case of beginners improvers.

I'm glad to say that there are many people at my club who don't believe this - if they did I'd be nowhere near where I am now. I have had a load of advice from people, and have never felt that they were being rude, just very helpful.

It's not too difficult to do either - I've always been trained at work that to give feedback to someone you should praise what they are doing well at the same time, so you're not just focussing on faults. That way it comes across as encouraging rather than rude in any way.

And lastly, as a beginner it's just nice to be noticed sometimes, and to know that there are other archers who have a genuine interest in helping you to progress.

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by phillc

I think that many of the beginners think that they are imposing on others by asking things.

I'd certainly agree with that - I appreciate the help I get and don't want to overdo it by asking questions all the time. I think this might also be why some people feel reluctant to give occasional advice - there may be a fear that as soon as you do, people will come back to you again and again ... and again ...

Originally Posted by phillc

I let them know that thursday night is shooting for me but i am available at any other time for coaching,(club open 24/7)
I do try to get others to talk to and encorage them putting up short distance bosses between longer distance ones so that they don't feel put up the end away from the more experienced archers ( what about a badge that says I NEED HELP ) So the coaches know that they want help as some want to shoot recreationally and don't want coaches pestering them which can also put them off, and as time goes on perhaps they change to i'd like some coaching
I am trying to install a buddy sustem so that they have a more experienced archer who can answer questions about the club and archery in general and point them at a coach as and when needed (this more to make them feel part of the club)

I think these are all great ideas - and the more you help other people, the more likley they are to respect that there are some nights that you are there to shoot, and they'll be happy to hold any questions to a more suitable time.

[Erika]

As the top female compounder in the club it is in my interest to encourage other female compounders. I teamed up with a girl that I coached and with Madelaine Ferris (most legendary female compounder in Aus) and we won the teams event at the Nationals. We could have filled the team with another member from our club (but she did not attend) and I think we still would have done well.

Bringing other archers up to your level gives you more competition. You can drive each other and encourage each other. And it gives you someone to talk to on the way to and from collecting arrows (or maybe that's just us )

With respect to manners, I only offer my advice once. If it is ignored or taken with ill grace I don't bother again. I have watched beginners take advice from an older man who was also a beginner and then reject advice from the girl who was coaching the beginners that day. I have also been accused of ignoring a beginner and not helping him at all. The beginner in question ignored every piece of advice I had to offer because he knew better. Funny how the person he finally decided to accept advice from was a man twice my age and with 1/10 the experience. If you are being ignored by the top archers, perhaps your manners need work.

Originally Posted by chemistry

Can I add that the archery etiquette trotted out that "It is rude to offer help unless an archer ask for it.." isn't helpful in the case of beginners improvers.


chemistry

If I see an archer having trouble I wait for a quiet moment and ask them if they'd like a hand with 'whatever it is that looks to be troubling them' It usually works and they're happy to chat about it and maybe agree to work on some aspect of their shot or setup

I don't think it's fair to sit back if you have the ablity to help, but I don't agree with charging round the shooting like with the "yew dont want to doo it loik thaat!" attitude either

[flamingbladerider]

I think one of the main reasons begginers dont stay is because of the archery "CLICK" mentality. I've seen it in every club i've been to. For Example in our club, the upper click who are all compounders will spend 10 minutes with an inexperienced compounder if he has a problem. But he'll spend all night with a fellow compounder ( in the click ) to help him get his new bow sorted. Newbies and inexperienced pick up on this and get very dis-heartened and end up leaving. Know what the click say " must not of liked archery" B/S.

A minority (i hope) of club archers dont seem to like beginners in "THEIR" club because it means it might disturb "THEIR" nights shooting, and personaly i'd rather have 5 beginners that are prepared to learn and get stuck in, than 1 experienced compounder who is more interested in getting his rounds in.

Beginners need to be coaxed, talked to, attention given to them, praised, helped, advised, because we as experienced archers are their source of information and help. Beginners dont leave, we let them go. If a club doesnt know why its beginners dont stay, heres an idea - ASK THEM!!!!!!!!

Come on ladies and gentlemen beginners dont leave

[john rowland]

Originally Posted by phil_r_58

HI all,

Been watching this thread for ages. I agree about lots of coaching, encouragement, club competitions for beginners etc.

But especially for kids, they get bored easily, we used to have little fun sessions at the end of coaching and practise. One was to get 2 lots of balloons, like red and blue. Pin an equal number on each bale. Split the kids/adults into 2 evenly matched teams, the winners pop their balloons first. Of course, a bad shot is going to pop the rivals balloons. Did I say kids love it?, funny. plenty of the adults ended up joining in. One tip, put a teaspoon of talc in the balloons. Big cloud on bursting. We had archery darts faces as well, especially popular with the adult beginners, make it fun, lots of cheering on.

I don't agree with the 'leave it all to the coaches, its their job' thats Cr*p IMHO. Having a club is expensive, we need new members to keep coming in and stay to keep the club viable.

We used to devote the first 40 Min's of the indoors in winter or outdoor evenings to the beginners, they shot, we all teamed up with them and helped them out.

And you top archers in the club, the ones who the lower shooters look up to in awe, especially the kids. OK you are practising for the county champs, but as above, without the lower members fees, your club will go bust, then nowhere to practise for you. Use your status as a tool for good, its free and rewarding.

Imagine what its like for some young kid or adult learner for you to sit behind him/her for a few minutes. How do you think he or she will feel if you watch them and praise them in front of everybody? Any tips or little bits of advice will mean a lot to them. All it takes is for you to give a few minutes of time.

It's not anyones job to help newbies, its EVERY BODIES job IMHO.

I agree with the statment without the lower shooters fees there would be no club,Yes we used to have a few eletists like that but all they did was keep moaning that the learners and children were holding them back and could we move them to another day ,thank god they are gone from the club now ,and the learners and children are still with us , for without children a club is just an load of ageing archers with no future John

[flamingbladerider]

Originally Posted by john rowland

I agree with the statment without the lower shooters fees there would be no club,Yes we used to have a few eletists like that but all they did was keep moaning that the learners and children were holding them back and could we move them to another day ,thank god they are gone from the club now ,and the learners and children are still with us , for without children a club is just an load of ageing archers with no future John

I agree totally, in your club your lucky. But in a lot of other clubs these "elitists" still exist and will not change with the times and its the beginners and inexperienced that suffer because of them and clubs dont increase in size, but only get the odd member joining and more importantley staying.

[john rowland]

Originally Posted by flamingbladerider

I agree totally, in your club your lucky. But in a lot of other clubs these "elitists" still exist and will not change with the times and its the beginners and inexperienced that suffer because of them and clubs dont increase in size, but only get the odd member joining and more importantley staying.

Since they left ,our club has gone from 44 after they had gone to 86 ,that is the differrance John

[phil_r_58]

Originally Posted by flamingbladerider

I agree totally, in your club your lucky. But in a lot of other clubs these "elitists" still exist and will not change with the times and its the beginners and inexperienced that suffer because of them and clubs dont increase in size, but only get the odd member joining and more importantley staying.

And sadly, so shortsighted of the elitists. I once asked my mate Mike, why he spent so much time with the beginners and improvers, when he could be practising. His thoughts ?

• Helping others gave him a sense of satisfaction

• He felt less guilty about missing course clearing days, when he was encouraging new members to stay, so was helping the club in other ways.

• As with Erika's spot on reply, encouraging other good archers in the club up the ladder pushed him higher, he got tough competition even on practise days.

• When he was looking for sponsorship, it did not go unnoticed by sponsors, that not only was he top shot, people could approach him, and bought equipment he recommended. He could promote equipment, not just shoot it.

• The killer thought ? When the day came he was getting too old, he could rightly say that not only was he unbeatable, but his students would also be unbeatable and deny his rivals the top spot. And they did !!

But then again, he was not an elitist, You don't have to be elitist to be World champ.

All this was of course discussed over several pints of real ale.