When is a beginners course not a beginners course....?

[ben tarrow]

Q. When is a beginners course not a beginners course?

A. When non GNAS archers are declared "beginners" to allow them to take part in GNAS competitions, avoiding the "you must be a GNAS member to take part in GNAS competitions" rule.

It seems there is a non GNAS field archery club that loan their grounds to a GNAS club for shoots. The non GNAS club members want to be able to take part in the GNAS shoots, but dont want to join GNAS. Therefore the GNAS club have declared it will name the non GNAS archers as "beginners" and say they are on a "beginners course" for the duration of the shoot, thus circumventing the GNAS membership rules and keeping the GNAS members happy on the insurance issues.

If this is really permitted, I see the end of GNAS membership as we know it.
We could all just become life long beginners!

Ben

[provins]

Originally Posted by ben tarrow

We could all just become life long beginners!

Ben

Most of us are mate,

[provins]

Seriously though,are the archers of the non gnas club just wanting to shoot or are they wanting to be eligible for medals.
You see,the non gnas club might just have this arrangement with the gnas club so that the'yre members shooting is not disrupted by gnas coming in for a day and taking over the ground.
Has this happened many times? Is it a regular occurence?
Sounds like a "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" sort of thing.
Seems pretty fair to me to get archers from different societys shooting together.
Nice one.

[moo-mop]

There are rules about for how long one is permitted to be a beginner, something like six sessions. I was a member of a club that told all the beginners about them about them at the start of their course and definitely applied them to the letter. I don't know what they are, but I think it's something like you can do six sessions (I guess there will be a time-span that this is over) so maybe you can use this method for a once a year shoot.

Originally Posted by ben tarrow

Q. When is a beginners course not a beginners course?

A. When non GNAS archers are declared "beginners" to allow them to take part in GNAS competitions, avoiding the "you must be a GNAS member to take part in GNAS competitions" rule.

It seems there is a non GNAS field archery club that loan their grounds to a GNAS club for shoots. The non GNAS club members want to be able to take part in the GNAS shoots, but dont want to join GNAS. Therefore the GNAS club have declared it will name the non GNAS archers as "beginners" and say they are on a "beginners course" for the duration of the shoot, thus circumventing the GNAS membership rules and keeping the GNAS members happy on the insurance issues.

If this is really permitted, I see the end of GNAS membership as we know it.
We could all just become life long beginners!

Ben

Wouldn't like to be them if anything went wrong and they had to make a claim. Insurance companies pay no attention until you do...then the gloves will come off and any reason not to pay will be used against the club

[Raphe]

Originally Posted by provins

Sounds like a "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" sort of thing.
Seems pretty fair to me to get archers from different societys shooting together.
Nice one.

As mentioned above, I doubt the insurers will see it like that.

I imagine they set their price to GNAS based on the membership numbers. I can see two outcomes:

1) A GNAS member's claim is invalidated because GNAS as a whole has broken the contract through the actions of this club.

2) The cost to all GNAS members goes up, because the insurers start quoting on the basis of total membership + 40% to allow for the clubs taking the p***.

At the very least, the members of this club are shooting alongside uninsured archers: if one of them puts an arrow through them, I don't imagine they'll be philosophical about having no claim to compensation. At worst, these people are invalidating MY insurance, and I'm not happy.

[TJ Mason]

In the GNAS Shooting Admin Procedures, under Public Liability Insurance, "Those insured" includes "Beginners prior to becoming members of the Society for a maximum of their first six lessons."

Elsewhere (can't find it at the mo), there's a stipulation that a beginners course must not last for more than a total of 12 hours in a year.

Is a tournament within the definition of "lesson"? Depends how it's run of course, but they really are pushing their luck.

Originally Posted by provins

Seems pretty fair to me to get archers from different societys shooting together.
Nice one.

Yes I agree that's a good idea, though I think GNAS insurance is the only one that encompasses all bow types.That's what I like best about it ..make one payment and shoot any bow type with any gnas member (with no worries)

[joetapley]

I would have thought the non GNAS club would have it's own public liability insurance for its own members under which they would covered be for shooting on their own ground.

[Raedwald]

Originally Posted by joetapley

I would have thought the non GNAS club would have it's own public liability insurance for its own members under which they would covered be for shooting on their own ground.

An EFAA or NFAS club would, yes, for shooting under the rules of those societies (the same as the GNAS insurance would cover members for shooting under it's rules).

This sounds a little "dodgy" to me, but it's be good to know the full facts.