Beiter Nocks. Do they shrink when it is cold(er)?

[Ceri Jones]

Originally Posted by Old Bloke

Alandee, I will do the temp test tomorrow just to see what happens. Never done much with Easton *G* nocks so I will be interested to see what happens. Always trusted Beiter. Not sure if I have any new *G* nocks either. I was wondering if it was the string changing but the fridge test eliminated the string.

Ive wondered this one. I don't like the new Easton nocks as the d-loop would sometimes push them off the string when the temp was cold in our indoor hall but the arrow stayed on when shooting in warm conditions, hence reason for changing to G nocks, these are easier to push in when they are cold, but then again even at room temp some are easier to push in than other's. this could be down to the machining of the uni-bushings.

[Erika]

We've had 38-42 degree C days and there have been no problems in the heat. And there were no problems in 8 degrees either.

So what temeratures are you having problems in? Your idea of cold versus someone else's is widely open to interpretation. I wear thermals in 25 deg C.

[Murray]

Originally Posted by Erika

I have never encountered any problems with any of them.

Likewise. Never had a problem with nock fit on the string. HAVE noticed nock fit variations on the arrows, but since I fit them with ptfe tape if they're the least bit slack, it's never been an issue.

[Old Bloke]

Murray, it is not the fitting of the nock into the arrow which concerns me that much, an ill fitting nock can be fixed with dental floss or other, it is an observation that the nock would appear to expand and contract based on ambient air temperature, which has caused a once tight fitting nock in the arrow to fall out when shot. The contraction of the whole of the nock has probably caused excessive jaw grab on the bowstring and hence the nock hanging onto the bowstring when the arrow is shot thus flying out of the arrow and the arrow going down the range nock-less. The fixing with dental floss or other stops this from happening but does nothing to stop the jaws of the nock either getting wider or narrower depending on the ambient air temparature. An archer could have tuned a bow on a warm day but will see a very different tune on a cold day simply because the nock is tighter/looser. It could go a long way to explaining why some archers shoot good scores on one day but rubbish on another or even differing handicap ratings over distances during a single day shoot when the archer feels as though he/she had shot to the same form and ability over both days or during a day long shoot. The weather and thereby ambient air temperature might have more affect on one's archery kit than one imagines.

[BowSurfer]

Originally Posted by Old Bloke

Murray, it is not the fitting of the nock into the arrow which concerns me that much, an ill fitting nock can be fixed with dental floss or other, it is an observation that the nock would appear to expand and contract based on ambient air temperature, which has caused a once tight fitting nock in the arrow to fall out when shot. The contraction of the whole of the nock has probably caused excessive jaw grab on the bowstring and hence the nock hanging onto the bowstring when the arrow is shot thus flying out of the arrow and the arrow going down the range nock-less. The fixing with dental floss or other stops this from happening but does nothing to stop the jaws of the nock either getting wider or narrower depending on the ambient air temparature. An archer could have tuned a bow on a warm day but will see a very different tune on a cold day simply because the nock is tighter/looser. It could go a long way to explaining why some archers shoot good scores on one day but rubbish on another or even differing handicap ratings over distances during a single day shoot when the archer feels as though he/she had shot to the same form and ability over both days or during a day long shoot. The weather and thereby ambient air temperature might have more affect on one's archery kit than one imagines.

However, there is no simple relationship between the fit with the arrow changing with temperature and the fit with the string changing. How the diameter of a hole in a plate changes with temperature, is different from how the hole in a thin ring changes with temperature. In a complicated, jaw shape it is very difficult to make any prediction about how the jaw gap will change. You could do it mathematically but its easier just to measure the effects.

[Tobytoolbag]

Originally Posted by Old Bloke

Murray, it is not the fitting of the nock into the arrow which concerns me that much, an ill fitting nock can be fixed with dental floss or other, it is an observation that the nock would appear to expand and contract based on ambient air temperature, which has caused a once tight fitting nock in the arrow to fall out when shot. The contraction of the whole of the nock has probably caused excessive jaw grab on the bowstring and hence the nock hanging onto the bowstring when the arrow is shot thus flying out of the arrow and the arrow going down the range nock-less. The fixing with dental floss or other stops this from happening but does nothing to stop the jaws of the nock either getting wider or narrower depending on the ambient air temparature. An archer could have tuned a bow on a warm day but will see a very different tune on a cold day simply because the nock is tighter/looser. It could go a long way to explaining why some archers shoot good scores on one day but rubbish on another or even differing handicap ratings over distances during a single day shoot when the archer feels as though he/she had shot to the same form and ability over both days or during a day long shoot. The weather and thereby ambient air temperature might have more affect on one's archery kit than one imagines.

I'm guessing here, but perhaps this is why Werner introduced the serve-in nocking point, which presumably, being made out of similar, if not identical, material to the nocks, would expand and contract at the same rate, and hence not produce the 'jaw grab' problem caused by the nock contracting around a dissimilar material like serving material...

[Old Bloke]

That could well be the case Tobes. I clip the nock directly onto the string serving. It might be that what you say is the case and thereby some archers not noticing anything peculiar from day to day. Interesting idea.

[chryd]

Originally Posted by Tobytoolbag

I'm guessing here, but perhaps this is why Werner introduced the serve-in nocking point, which presumably, being made out of similar, if not identical, material to the nocks, would expand and contract at the same rate, and hence not produce the 'jaw grab' problem caused by the nock contracting around a dissimilar material like serving material...

I would have thought (maybe not my strong point ) that the nock point would have to be made of a different material with the opposite properties, otherwise, as the nock contracted (looser fit on string), the nock point would contract as well, giving an even looser fit! Instead you'd want the nock point to expand as the nock contracted and vice versa.

Personally, I use Beiter hunter nocks on both my XX75's and my ACC's (shooting compound). I've not noticed any difference in nock fit on my ACC's but have had some nocks go loose or tight on the XX75's - but I've always put it down to the nocks being hit by other arrows and getting bent (tighter fit) or spread (looser fit). The Beiters in the XX75's (super uni bush) are definitely a more variable fit in the shaft than the nocks in the ACC's (plain uni bush) though. Mind you, my XX75 nocks are solid black, while the ACC's are translucent red - maybe the colour/"translucency" makes a difference?

Chris.

[inthezone]

As Suggested I have done a measurement survey on a packet of Beiter in / out hunter nocks

Nocks are New Taken at random from a selection of packets in my possession they are of recent manufacture and do not suffer from ageing or UV exposure they have been kept in a sealed packet as from Beiters all dimensions are in millimeters to the 3rd decimal place 0.001mm is a very small dimension a cigarette paper is approximately 0.01mm

Nock Number______Diameter @ 20c___________Diameter@ 3c
1..............................3,226.............. ..............3.226
2..............................3.226.............. ..............3.226
3..............................3.227.............. ..............3.227
4..............................3.227.............. ..............3.220
5..............................3.227.............. ..............3.221
6..............................3.227.............. ..............3.225
7..............................3.227.............. ..............3.225
8..............................3.227.............. ..............3.228
8..............................3.227.............. ..............3.225
9..............................3.227.............. ..............3.225
10............................3.227............... .............3.223
11............................3.224............... .............3.223
12............................3.226............... .............3.224

I Am leaving to you to draw your own conclusions, there could be several theories that will fit this situation of arrow shaft / nock transitional fit you just need to look at the BS standards on limits and fits to see how difficult it is to produce a decent light interference fit

[Murray]

Here's one for the material scientists... so would magnesium nocks (a.la the Nanor-XR nocks) be any better or worse??