Beiter Nocks. Do they shrink when it is cold(er)?

[Old Bloke]

I'm not a one to question other companies manufactured products, but as an archer I can, when the time permitts, ware two hats.
There has been something that has bothered me for a very long time and, well, it is difficult to put into words, but, I have a feeling that Beiter nocks expand and contract depending on the ambient temperature. Let me explain.

I was the first person in the U.K. to test Beiter nocks before they went into production. In those days (1980's) the nocks fitted into the tail end of the alloy arrows. I had the nocks on test for many months and reported back to Werner that they were simply the best engineered nock. That is probably true today. However, during that time of testing summer/winter I had noticed that at times the nocks were tighter to clip onto the string. I didn't worry too much at the time because I was doing allright with them, being British champion. The nocks were clipped directly onto the centre serving. Later, the split Beiter Nocking point was produced and I used those. But looking into my diaries, I once again made a small ref' to the tight and then not so tight nock fitting. No more ref' was made to it. Just a question going around in my head.
Then coming back to the sport and using the Beiter nocks in ACE, at the British Field Champs in 1996, I shot a very good score on the 1st day (warm and sunny) but had awful problems on the second day (cold and wet) when all the nocks were coming out of the arrows and flying around the field when the shot was made. I ended up with just three arrows left and very nearly had to retire because I had run out of nocks. It ended up with a piece of paper plus nock going into the end of the shaft to hold the nock into place. Everyone who saw my problems stated that it must have been the ends of the carbon arrows splitting, but on closer inspection back home showed otherwise and in any case as these arrows are carbon and alloy, then both materials would have to have been split. On the following wednesday and a warm evening, I had no problem with the nocks as they all stayed firmly in place with no added paper in the shaft. my diary of 1996 shows that all was well untill a cold day in October, when all the nocks flew out again.
Having come back to the sport last year, I am now aware that maybe something isn't as it should be, so I put dental floss together with the nock into the tail of the arrows thus keeping them very tight and secure. A recent test confirmed that without this support, on a cold night, those nocks come out of the shaft (again).
Now it is a scientific fact that things in general tend to shrink when cold and based on my records lends me to think that the Beiter nocks shrink when cold more so that the tube in which they are placed, hence, they fly out when cold. No problems when warm/hot. But if the nock is shrinking then the grip of the nock on the string could be severly affected throughout a period of cold or even through a two day tournament. It might just one of the reasons why I know of some very good archers who shoot very good scores one day and then very mediocre the second (or vica versa) depending on the weather.
Me being me I'm curious, but has anyone else noticed that sometimes the nock is harder to clip onto the bowstring..or am I imagining all this? Records kept tend to say otherwise.
Any thoughts anyone?

[Flying Whale]

Originally Posted by Old Bloke

I'm not a one to question other companies manufactured products, but as an archer I can, when the time permitts, ware two hats.
There has been something that has bothered me for a very long time and, well, it is difficult to put into words, but, I have a feeling that Beiter nocks expand and contract depending on the ambient temperature. Let me explain.

I was the first person in the U.K. to test Beiter nocks before they went into production. In those days (1980's) the nocks fitted into the tail end of the alloy arrows. I had the nocks on test for many months and reported back to Werner that they were simply the best engineered nock. That is probably true today. However, during that time of testing summer/winter I had noticed that at times the nocks were tighter to clip onto the string. I didn't worry too much at the time because I was doing allright with them, being British champion. The nocks were clipped directly onto the centre serving. Later, the split Beiter Nocking point was produced and I used those. But looking into my diaries, I once again made a small ref' to the tight and then not so tight nock fitting. No more ref' was made to it. Just a question going around in my head.
Then coming back to the sport and using the Beiter nocks in ACE, at the British Field Champs in 1996, I shot a very good score on the 1st day (warm and sunny) but had awful problems on the second day (cold and wet) when all the nocks were coming out of the arrows and flying around the field when the shot was made. I ended up with just three arrows left and very nearly had to retire because I had run out of nocks. It ended up with a piece of paper plus nock going into the end of the shaft to hold the nock into place. Everyone who saw my problems stated that it must have been the ends of the carbon arrows splitting, but on closer inspection back home showed otherwise and in any case as these arrows are carbon and alloy, then both materials would have to have been split. On the following wednesday and a warm evening, I had no problem with the nocks as they all stayed firmly in place with no added paper in the shaft. my diary of 1996 shows that all was well untill a cold day in October, when all the nocks flew out again.
Having come back to the sport last year, I am now aware that maybe something isn't as it should be, so I put dental floss together with the nock into the tail of the arrows thus keeping them very tight and secure. A recent test confirmed that without this support, on a cold night, those nocks come out of the shaft (again).
Now it is a scientific fact that things in general tend to shrink when cold and based on my records lends me to think that the Beiter nocks shrink when cold more so that the tube in which they are placed, hence, they fly out when cold. No problems when warm/hot. But if the nock is shrinking then the grip of the nock on the string could be severly affected throughout a period of cold or even through a two day tournament. It might just one of the reasons why I know of some very good archers who shoot very good scores one day and then very mediocre the second (or vica versa) depending on the weather.
Me being me I'm curious, but has anyone else noticed that sometimes the nock is harder to clip onto the bowstring..or am I imagining all this? Records kept tend to say otherwise.
Any thoughts anyone?

Should be a couple of simple experiments to prove this. Put some nocks in a cool larder or fridge, and measure them with a decent micrometer. Put them ijn a warm airing cupboard or on a sunny window sill for a while and measure them again.

Would be interested to know the results.

You may also find that in the colder weather the plastic is slightly less flexible, thus also making it harder to nock the arrow, and perhaps making the nock grab more on the string and more likely to come out.

[phillc]

I think you have to take arrow shaft temp into account as well aluminium and plastic have different expantion rates also damp nocks may slip more easily than dry ones also the serving can swell up when damp. I did have a problem with G nocks last year but a strand of dental floss down the inside of the shaft stopped it happening again.

[Quadratus]

I think the broader question is "are Beiter nocks a consistent, good fit in the shaft?"

My answer, "No - and I don't care if they do all come from the same mould!"

Take one brand new shaft and two dozen Beiter nocks from the same bag. Try fitting each nock in turn to the same shaft. Repeat in a different order, in case the shaft has been widened by pushing so many nocks into it.

End result: I use Beiters because I like the string fit, but I glue them in with Evo Stik.

[Evo Stik impact adhesive is excellent for this, BTW, as it forms a weak bond that can be broken very easily, just by a twist, but won't let your nocks rotate or come loose accidentally]

[Erika]

I use Beiters on my current x10s (none available for my protours just yet) for both compound, recurve, my indoor arrows for both and my 3D arrows.

I have never encountered any problems with any of them.

[Rhys]

For my navigators i had to ignore about 4 of the beiter nocks i bought as they simply didnt fit the shaft right. Two of them were far too loose, and a couple couldn't be turned without extreme force once they were in. However i've never noticed an inconsistency with nock-string fit, but i might not have been paying enough attention.

[Random_guy]

Never had a problem with the more common ones (Size 2, ACE insert or ACE in-out) but i have seen problems with less widely used ones such as the size 1 medium spine nav in-out nocks, virtually none of which seem to fit, and fly out *every* shot. Very strange....

[wingate_52]

I have had lose Beiters in some of my fatboys swap shaft and they are ok. Shaft problems solved with a piece of floss.

[BowSurfer]

Preumably if you use in-out nocks, then when the inside bit gets looser the outside bit will get tighter to compensate.

[hooktonboy]

Originally Posted by Quadratus

I think the broader question is "are Beiter nocks a consistent, good fit in the shaft?"

My answer, "No - and I don't care if they do all come from the same mould!"

Yes this is my experience too - with every set I've ever bought!