tiller?

[elastoplastscavenger]

am i right in thinking tiller is setting one limb pocket/mount at a different angle from t'other? and that this is perhaps to offset a dendancy to pull one limb harder than the other due to the bows centre of gravity (drawn or undrawn?) tending to tumble the bow forwards down the range (or backwards i guess).

[Murray]

Yes, tiller is the difference in angle of the top limb and the bottom one. Measured as the difference in distance between the base of the top limb (near the limb pocket) and the string (measured at 90 degrees from the string), and the same measurement on the bottom limb.

It's generally touted as a good idea for two main reasons:
1. The throat of the grip is not in the middle of the riser
2. We shoot one finger above and two below

Somewhere between 0mm and +4mm is usual (+4mm = string 4mm further away from the top limb).

There are many ways to check for good tiller - drawing the bow back in a straight line and watching to ensure the longrod doesn't rise or fall is one.

[clickerati]

Perhaps you chaps could reinstate The Tiller Girls to help you make adjustments before shooting.

[tel]

which one is you, click?

[clickerati]

exit stage left...

[geoffretired]

Hi, Tiller is a word that is starting to lose its meaning through inconsistent use.
When bows were made in one piece, like long bows and, later, the one piece recurves, the bottom limb was made stiffer than the top one. This was to compensate for the fact that the hand pushed into the grip below centre. The hand was below centre because the arrow was at the centre. By making the bottom limb stiffer it made the bows shoot sweeter as it reduced the tendency to jerk when releasing arrows. To check how much stiffer the bottom limb was, the bowyer would measure the distance from string to riser at specific places above the grip and below. When the difference in measurements was about eight or quarter inch that was the tillering done.
When take apart bows started, they also had the bottom limb stiffer than the top one and for the same reasons. That's why they had to be marked so they weren't put in upside down. Setting the tiller was done by the bowmaker at the limb production stage.
When compounds were introduced, things started to get vague. Archers could tighten down one limb more than the other as they changed the poundage. If one was wound down more than the other, it showed up when the distance was measured from string to riser at the top limb pocket and again at the bottom limb pocket. This is where tiller, in the original sense, was measured to find out how much stiffer the bottom limb was. It was checked at the manufacturing stage. And still is for longbows.
This is where the confusion starts. In a compound it is often said that we can stiffen the bottom limb by winding down its limb bolt. This is not quite accurate. If one limb bolt is tightened, both limbs are bent a little more than they were. In that sense they are both stiffened and by the same amount.
The only way to stiffen one limb is to make it stiffer when it is made.( unless you add material to it later)
Tiller tuning with modern bows is really altering the angle of the riser compared to the limbs or altering the angle of the limbs compared to the riser.
You can make the riser lean forward at the top or at the bottom.
Some people find that one setting helps their grouping. Some people use this as a way of fine tuning their nocking point position relative to the arrow rest. It can be finely adjusted rather than re-doing the nocking point.
It also means that stabilisers are in a different position, they may be tilting down more or tilting up more, and for some, this helps.
I am saying all this to try to clarify what is meant by the term "tiller tuning"
Using the internet for helping others is an amazing opportunity that we did not have a few years ago. Having the right language to use for this work is important. Not because I am an old fuss pot but because vague use of words means some can get the wrong messages and then things have to be done again, or worse, they work on mis-information that goes unnoticed and they then get worse not better and blame the person who only wanted to help.
I have seen many good archers go down hill because something was said to them that was not understood in the same way as it was delivered. Ask 20 people what draw force line means and you could get at least 10 variations.
Sorry for going on
All the best
Geoff

[tel]

Hi Geoff,
It is precisely to clear up some of these misunderstandings that most of us are here. Thanks for taking the time...