Bow Hand Torque

[archer_thom]

Hi everyone,
Could some kind and knowledgeable person please explain what "bow hand torque" is? I've heard it around here quite frequently but there are some questions which I would like to address:

- I get that BHT means that the bow is being twisted, but how is this possible if the bow hand is relaxed? Is it a question of the hand not being quite in the centre of the grip, or not sufficiently relaxed?

- Is this also an issue with twisting around the axis of the arrow? Or up and down?

[geoffretired]

I see bow hand torque as being created because the hand is directing its pressure into the bow slightly to one side of the "ideal" position.
If you grip the bow and deliberately twist it, you will create this torque. If the hand is relaxed, it can still apply its pressure to one side of ideal.Imagine a bow with both limbs leaning badly over in the same direction, let's say to the right as seen by the archer shooting the bow.The archer can hold the grip lightly but the bow will twist in the hand as the limb tips try to get behind the grip rather than being to the right of it. Applying pressure into one side of the grip has a similar effect,just reduced.
I have had problems with this because the shape of some grips means my hand applies its pressure in the wrong place (Left to right). I have altered the grip to put things right.
It is more obvious with compounds as the low holding weight means the bow is easier to press out of line. The much higher holding weight of a recurve means the bow twists itself back into line more strongly than most archers can overcome

[Old Bloke]

I don't think anyone could post anything more to add! Nice post Geoff.

[Desert Archer]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

I have had problems with this because the shape of some grips means my hand applies its pressure in the wrong place (Left to right). I have altered the grip to put things right.

The only thing I would add is an expansion of the above. For those who like it or can adapt to it, the BEST grip by Jager Archery helps solve this placement and pressure problem for recurve shooters. It places the hand in exactly the same place every time and keeps it there, inducing consistent pressure on the bow. You can still "torque" the bow but it becomes more of a form/alignment issue than a problem with the bow hand.

YMMV,
Dave

[archer_thom]

Yes I use a Jager BEST grip which I like very much. In a way it is the reason for the question because my hand is very relaxed with it. Therefore I was wondering if tension was the only contributing factor to torque.

[geoffretired]

If you grip the bow you can deliberately twist it to create torque, though at full draw with a recurve that would be difficult to maintain.
If a relaxed hand applies pressure into the wrong part of the bow, torque will be created.Sometimes a slight hand adjustment sorts it out. However, for some people the hand adjustment puts the hand in a position that is difficult to maintain as the adjustment required means the hand is not fully relaxed.
I made a grip once that fitted to the riser so it could be adjusted from side to side by small amounts. The shape suited my hand so the hand could be relaxed. By moving the grip, in small amounts, I could have a relaxed hand plus, apply pressure to a particular spot on the bow, so torque was reduced to as near zero as I could judge.
A different hand may require a different grip or use the same grip placed at a different position on the riser.

[archer_thom]

Aha! Hence the two pieces in my Axis grip! It all starts to make sense now.

[addo]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Imagine a bow with both limbs leaning badly over in the same direction, let's say to the right as seen by the archer shooting the bow.The archer can hold the grip lightly but the bow will twist in the hand as the limb tips try to get behind the grip rather than being to the right of it.

I accidently aligned my bow this way when i first began archery.I had to retire from a round because the effect was very serious(missing the target at 80y) At full draw my longrod pointed one side of the target and my arrow pointed the other side.

In context with the rest of your post,you have helped me finally understand little problems i had been having with my own grip.My shooting has improved dramatically since i first read this post a month ago or so.

[princejohn]

Just some tips to avoid this
1- set bow hand so that riser contact with hand does not go past hand heartline i.e. riser is between heartline and thumb.
2- when starting out get bow comfortably in hand then draw a felt pen line on hand and a matching dot on riser - always line the two up
3 -Always have hand well thro bow. The string should be over the wrist bone
4 - after drawing arrow have a quick look now and again to check that the stabaliser end is always in the same spot relative to the arrow end
5 - A lot of torque can be eliminated by tuning the sight bar. Imagine ifthe bow is torqued then the sight bar will be pointing in the direction of the torque and when aiming yopu will in fact pull the sight over (correct it) when getting the target in the scope. By altering the length that the sight bar is extended beyond the bow then virtually all torque can be eliminated. See James Park's books

[addo]

Originally Posted by princejohn

Just some tips to avoid this
1- set bow hand so that riser contact with hand does not go past hand heartline i.e. riser is between heartline and thumb.
2- when starting out get bow comfortably in hand then draw a felt pen line on hand and a matching dot on riser - always line the two up
3 -Always have hand well thro bow. The string should be over the wrist bone
4 - after drawing arrow have a quick look now and again to check that the stabaliser end is always in the same spot relative to the arrow end
5 - A lot of torque can be eliminated by tuning the sight bar. Imagine ifthe bow is torqued then the sight bar will be pointing in the direction of the torque and when aiming yopu will in fact pull the sight over (correct it) when getting the target in the scope. By altering the length that the sight bar is extended beyond the bow then virtually all torque can be eliminated. See James Park's books

Nice post princejohn.This supplements what geoffretired has said on the matter and has furthered my understanding of a very fundamental part of archery IMO.Point 1 is especially helpful and easy to understand.I shoot better(most of the time ) now i've got all the grip to the right of my heartline.