Getting the messages across.

[geoffretired]

Last night in the C&Q I was listening to several archers talking about a topic that will remain a secret.
The fascinating thing was that archers with opposing views, apparently, were very nearly on the same side.Also, archers on the same side, had different ideas in many important aspects of the topic.
These differences were the things that drove the conversation/discussion. Had we all agreed on everything, there'd be nothing else to say.
One feature of this sort of discussion/learning that can often get left out is the two way communication.When that is left out, much that is of real value, is lost.
Example: one person is explaining how to............
The listener says they will give that a try.(whatever "that" happens to be.)
If that is the end of the conversation, I think there is an important opportunity being missed.
To get the best from the explanation, I feel there should be another step.
The one where the listener puts into their own words what THEY think they have been advised to do. After all, it is the listener's own words that will be guiding them through the task when they get chance to give it a try. As soon as they put things into their own words, you know if they got the right message from the explanation. Without that feedback, the message could be misunderstood and neither party will know.
It is very easy to assume the messages got across.
"Children make tasty snacks."
"New bridge held up by red tape."
"Grandmother of eight gets a hole in one."

[Kae]

Yes, I think certain subjects should be kept secret. I don't think LMP wants everyone to know........


On a serious note;

I think that is an important idea Geoff. I've used something similar when relaying instructions.

A - Turn left
B - Left turn
A - straight on
B - Straight on

This way your always double checking yourselves.

Kae.

[phil_r_58]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Last night in the C&Q I was listening to several archers talking about a topic that will remain a secret.
The fascinating thing was that archers with opposing views, apparently, were very nearly on the same side.Also, archers on the same side, had different ideas in many important aspects of the topic.
These differences were the things that drove the conversation/discussion. Had we all agreed on everything, there'd be nothing else to say.
One feature of this sort of discussion/learning that can often get left out is the two way communication.When that is left out, much that is of real value, is lost.
Example: one person is explaining how to............
The listener says they will give that a try.(whatever "that" happens to be.)
If that is the end of the conversation, I think there is an important opportunity being missed.
To get the best from the explanation, I feel there should be another step.
The one where the listener puts into their own words what THEY think they have been advised to do. After all, it is the listener's own words that will be guiding them through the task when they get chance to give it a try. As soon as they put things into their own words, you know if they got the right message from the explanation. Without that feedback, the message could be misunderstood and neither party will know.
It is very easy to assume the messages got across.
"Children make tasty snacks."
"New bridge held up by red tape."
"Grandmother of eight gets a hole in one."

I agree, It's also fraught with danger trying to explain how to do something practical in words. I know on our internal chat system at work, we often use the whiteboard facility to draw diagrams on-line. Working on a helpdesk, its so difficult to explain to people how to do things over the phone. I usually give up and just go to remote assistance and do it for them from my console.

I think a picture says a thousand words is an underestimate. Try working out a complicated knot from diagrams, and then try getting someone to show you in the flesh.

[geoffretired]

phil r 58, that is very interesting.As you do this sort of thing daily, do you think there is a difficulty with the language we use not keeping up with the technology. What is normal speak to a computer literate person, is gobbledygook to me. In a similar way, we use words that mean things to ourselves but can have different meanings to others.
A simple archery example; "You have the arrow on the string the wrong way round."
Response= turns arrow round and tries to fit pile onto string........
Perhaps we need a "distance learning language" as we are not face to face. So much is lost with the lack of expression and gesture.

[moo-mop]

On the couple of times I have had coaching from a good coach, I explained back what had been asked there and then, then later emailed him with in words/diagrams as well, to check I hadn't forgotten.
I think you need both the practical demonstration (the knot example is a good one) and the written/diagram reminders in archery coaching.

[geoffretired]

Moo-mop, that sounds good. When you explained back to the coach, did you find there were some aspects that needed further clarification or had you got it right first time?
In face to face coaching I think two way is more likely to happen than in the distance learning situation.

[moo-mop]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Moo-mop, that sounds good. When you explained back to the coach, did you find there were some aspects that needed further clarification or had you got it right first time?
In face to face coaching I think two way is more likely to happen than in the distance learning situation.

Yes, it turned into a discussion.

Distance learning in archery is difficult if not impossible, discussion boards stimulate thought - but technique coaching, even if you do it yourself is a matter of practical stuff. Video is an essential tool.

[Meddler]

One of the first exercises we do in Coach training, working in pairs, is with one person lying down on the floor, by means of voice instructions (not the words "Get up"...) to get the person lying down to stand up.

Much hilarity often ensues...

But it does get across the point that verbal communication can be limiting.

See my sig for further clarification.

[napolienne]

hehehe yes done that, Meddler. Also done one where you are paired up, one as a coach one a performer. Performer has to throw a ball into a bucket about 5m away whilst facing the other way, coach has to help them do it. A classic version is where you have to instruct someone how to make a jam sandwich with words only...very messy. Great fun!

[phil_r_58]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

phil r 58, that is very interesting.As you do this sort of thing daily, do you think there is a difficulty with the language we use not keeping up with the technology. What is normal speak to a computer literate person, is gobbledygook to me. In a similar way, we use words that mean things to ourselves but can have different meanings to others.
A simple archery example; "You have the arrow on the string the wrong way round."
Response= turns arrow round and tries to fit pile onto string........
Perhaps we need a "distance learning language" as we are not face to face. So much is lost with the lack of expression and gesture.

There we go geoff. Misconception via text !!!. You see I never use gobbledegook or buzzwords on the helpdesk. My personal record by the way is 107 calls in a day, 79 fixed on the phone without raising a job for a technician to visit.


Yes I think there is a lack of expression in just words on a screen in many cases. I remember having an MSN conversation with a close friend a couple of years ago, she thought the tone of my writing was angry, but I thought I was pleading, not screaming with her.

I deal all day with students, lecturers, proffessors and doctorates. I believe that as soon as I use jargon I've lost control of the situation. The higher up the qualification ladder, the harder it is to get through to someone, strangely.

Typical conversation goes, after polite introduction.
***********************************
OK, so you have lost access to the portal and virtual campus programs ?"

Can you access the internet ?, yes, good.

Can you see your favourites in the menu at the top of the screen ?, no ?, OK, now I know whats wrong and we can fix that easily.

Can you click on the word START on the bottom left of the screen for me.

Now, can you see the start menu?

good, now can you click on ALL PROGRAMS button for me, its on the left of the first column, at the bottom, with a green arrow pointing left.

Has the "all programs" menu opened ?, OK, now can you click on the word ACCESSORIES for me, its fith from the top of the list.

Has it opened a menu to the right, with a grey background ?

Good, now can you look 1/3rd of the way down from the top, and see the words REFRESH POLICY ? OK, now could you click on the words for me.

Has a black box opened on the screen with the words "refreshing policy" inside it ?

OK, now when the words in the box change and say "POLICY REFRESHED" It will say OK to RE-BOOT, now can you press the key "Y" followed by the enter key.

Now your PC will re-boot and it should work OK, if not, ring me straight back, and I will look further, but the patch you have just run fixes this fault 95% of the time.

***********************
If you look at my normal descriptions, I use PICTURE words , to help visualise, and ask the user for constant feedback. But maybe our helpdesk is different, as our helpdesk/technical team has an average age of 40 !!! Maybe there is a message in that fact.

You see Geoff, I have been in this job over 20 years, I'm approaching 50. People who spout loads of jargon at you are BULLS**TERS, trust me on that. There is no need for jargon.
On the other hand being calm, precise, speaking plain english and explaining things gets results.