Numpty tuning stiff arrows

[teknohippy]

With bare-shafts missing at 40yards I knew I needed to do some tuning at some point. I decided to leave it until after the my first forays into competition with the GDB Windsor. My reasoning being I didn't want to mess around and screw things up, as I was doing quite well.

So yesterday I began to follow the tuning method Marcus outlined, which is pretty much becoming to be universally known as "Tuning for Numpties" for me . Cheers Marcus! As a scientist/engineer the method and reasoning behind it make perfect sense to me.

Well I setup a 122 target at 20yards, shot a group of 3 fletched, nice and tight. Shot a bare shaft. It was very low and left in the one-ring at 8 o'clock.

So I realised my nocking point was way off, got that sorted and then began to wind up the poundage to bring the bare-shaft into the group, reshooting group and bare-shaft all the time. I'd also changed from Dacron to fastflight, putting a little more energy into the arrow.

When I got to the completely wound in stage I'd move the bare-shaft to the border between blue and red, better but not perfect, shaft still too stiff for the bow, or bow not powerful enough for the shaft to look at it the other way.

So:
Question 1: Will changing my 70gn points to something heavier get me any closer. As I understand it that should weaken the dynamic spine?


Question 2: Or should I, as I'm on a free limb exchange program, swap my 28# limbs for 30# and get the bow's power a closer match to the arrows' spine.

Question 3: On another note, how do I get the points out of me ACCs?

Question 4: Will swapping brass nocking points for some tied on floss increase the energy going into the arrow by a discernible amount?

[Beardy]

I incresed my bow poundage in line with this tuning method, but the extra wieght might just be a little too much for me at the moment. I'll be watching this thread with intrest

[Tarkwin]

to remove your piles..

Depending upon the glue used, you can dip the piles and first 2"-ish of the shaft in boiling water, failing that, heat them gently, just the tip, not the shaft of the arrow. A gas cooker should do the trick, failing that, a blowtorch.

Don't forget pliers.... and when refitting the new piles, they stay hot for a long time...so fit the pile and then leave alone while you have a cuppa

Increasing the weight will help, as will increasing the weight on your fingers.

You might find that if you pick a not busy day, the same people that sell you the piles will fit them....

T.

[geoffretired]

You will speed up the bow by removing brass nock sets and replacing with thread. A lighter string can help, too; a bit less serving and/or fewer strands.
These methods of matching bow to arrows are useful aspects of the tuning process and worth the time. They don't upset your form. Changing limbs could, depending on how much spare strength you have.

[WhitehartFB]

I am not a great fan of increasing the weight of the bow (not that I can) to fine tune arrows unless the archer is very accomplished and shoots regulary and can handle the extra weight without it affecting their form. I have seen the difference just 2lbs can make to somebodys form and enjoyment of their archery.

To prove a point recently about arrows reacting stiff & weak. At 20yards I was able to make my bareshaft move horizontally about 2.5 feet just by changing the quality of my release and the position of the string on the fingers. You can only tune as good as you can shoot.

Technohippy I am assuming when you wound in your limbs you reset the tiller and limb alignment as this will affect your results.

Changing to floss nocking points, heavier points, less strands in your string will help to make small changes to the dynamics of your arrows and how fast they fly but also a "good" bareshaft result might not be right for you at this stage.

A slightly stiff arrow is a little more tollerent of a poorer release e.g. For this season I decided to put an extra 20gns on my points (ACE's) worried about sight marks I went down to a 16str Fastflight string (from 18) and at 20yards had the best ever bareshaft test I had ever shot - with the fletched and bareshaft touching or within a couple of mm. Yet at 100 yards I could not get a group anywhere near what I was shooting the year before. In the end all I had to change was the string back to 18strands and now my groups and consistancy have improved over last year without any loss of sightmarks, clearly the bow was not stable enough with a 16str string for the way I shoot My bareshaft at 20 yrds is now 5" horizontal (right, I am LH) to the fletched group. Not where people say it should be but for now it's working for me.

[dino1300]

This is interesting, as I have seen the matchstick for a button spring method dismissed by many threads.

Surely the arrow will bounce off the button, and go left?

I have never done this, I have always used a 'medium' button and gone from there.

If you can get the bare shaft to move from the left of the fletched arrow to the right and vica versa, just using the button preasure, then you have the right shaft. If you cannot then it is too stiff / weak, depending on which side the bareshaft stays.

[teknohippy]

I'm certainly not settled at a poundage yet (28# at the moment), and it's probably going to increase throughout the year anyway. As I head towards 35# I'll have to change arrows at some point.

When I've found a comfortable weight to stay at I'll probably be looking to come to yours for the whole Arrow Tryout service.

For now I'm trying to get the best tune out of the current arrows, so I'll do as much as I can to make the bow faster or the arrows weaker. Any more poundage at the moment will probably be too much of a leap so I'll be going for heavier points first and a lighter string. (Current serving is hugely thick! No.2 beiters are possibly TOO tight on it).

Then as I increase my strength and poundage I'll try and get more life out of the current arrows by dropping the point weight again

And as you say, plenty of work to do on form. When I release badly the bare-shaft is even further out! I've been using 3 bare-shafts and working all my reasoning from the nice tight group I'm getting though.

Working at 20yards has shown me how much my groupings improved since the winter though! I was almost tempted to put a 60cm on and see what I was scoring!

[geoffretired]

Originally Posted by whiteheart

My bareshaft at 20 yrds is now 5" horizontal (right, I am LH) to the fletched group. Not where people say it should be but for now it's working for me.

This is a very interesting point.I wonder how often archers stop the tuning session when they have a theoretically good set up. If better grouping comes from a set up that seems less than perfect,it is worth finding.

[WhitehartFB]

Originally Posted by teknohippy

Working at 20yards has shown me how much my groupings improved since the winter though! I was almost tempted to put a 60cm on and see what I was scoring!

That's great to hear keep it up, IMO as long as the basics are set up: your arrows are not wobbling too badly to the target, your sight pin on a calm day is not too far to the left or right and the backend is not hitting the riser/rest, then until you get to 1st/Bowman and above more points will be gained from improving form than any amount of turns of a button.

dino1300 "If you can get the bare shaft to move from the left of the fletched arrow to the right and vica versa, just using the button preasure, then you have the right shaft. If you cannot then it is too stiff / weak, depending on which side the bareshaft stays".

To me this makes a lot of sense, I also start with a medium button setting and I am more concerned with the fact that my arrows group and appear to fly straight and within reason in all weathers than the ideal bareshaft test.

Geoff even though things are set up to my liking and there is little to undo or tweak on a whitehart the urge to fiddle is a powerfull demon that needs keeping in check, what if I did this or that..even now I am thinking perhaps a 17strand string might be even better..but I will resist..

[geoffretired]

I understand the tweaking demon has a poewrful influence. Perhaps the tweaking is better aimed at small fletched groups rather than bare shaft in the group.