Feedback, how important is it?

[geoffretired]

Feedback , from the bow grip, is important I feel. Without that feedback, you could position your bow hand differently and not be aware of the changes.
With feedback, you can get the same position(more accurately) each shot, and be sorted before the shot is executed.
This thread is really about bow feedback, and in particular, the feedback from the powerstroke.That feedback comes after the release has been executed and on into the archer's follow through.
Some bows give obvious feedback, they seem to jump onto the sling. Others are more docile and seem to hang in the hand after a slight nudge.One bow seems to "disappear" at this stage in the shot, and MY follow through feels like I just MIMED it without a bow.I feel uninhibited, if that makes sense. I have heard the same bow described as "having/giving No feedback".
How important is that feedback? Is one sort more beneficial than another?
Is it just personal preference, or is there more to it than that?
Perhaps "feedback" is the wrong word; should it be called "reaction to being released" or "feel" of the power stroke?
I could do with some help to clarify these ideas in my own mind. Thanks.

[Erika]

I don't think that how the bow reacts after the shot tells you much at all except what the bow weight balance is like. If you are torquing the bow, you can see that when you draw up. You don't need to waste a shot finding out.

[geoffretired]

Thanks for that, Erika. Would you say that you like the way a bow shoots, or dislike it, because of the way it draws rather than the way it reacts in the power stroke? I appreciate that the way it performs is very important but that's not the only consideration, or is it?
For instance, I know you are shooting very well with your current bow. Do you also like shooting it? Has that anything to do with the way it draws up or the way the shot feels during the power stroke?

[Furface]

IMHO, all feedback is important, as, without it we couldn't start to analyse what we are doing. What you seem to be describing is that minute period of sensation between release and completion. And it really is minute, so small that few can attempt to be consciously aware of it. But this doesn't mean it isn't there and can't be used. In fact, quite a few use it sub-consciously. How often does someone say "That shot didn't feel right, but I can't put my finger on it"? However, without a high-speed camera, there is no way of analysing that exact split second, and it probably wouldn't help anyway. What it is is an amber light flashing on, that should prompt us to be aware that something may be happening.
As for individual bows, if they do not give feedback that could be because the archer's style is actually suited to the bow. When something changes, then feedback should occuer.
In my case, as a very aurally fixated sort of chap, I get this feedback from the sound of the shot.

[Murray]

In my own personal experience, bow reaction/feedback is pretty much irrelevant (unless it's obvious there's an issue - e.g. it's banging or buzzing unexpectedly) feedback on shot feel, for me, comes from within - if it felt like I made the shot right (this feedback is both tactile and visual, plus subconcious reaction), it doesn't matter whether the bow rotated in the same way, left my hand in the same way, etc.

Having shot various types of bows, I can pretty much get used to anything,

Of course, you can radically change any bow reaction by the use of tuning, stabilisation and dampening, but again I've shot a variety of configurations (just longrod, arrowtube instead of a longrod!, just top and bottom rod, as well as the "usual" setups) and can get used to most things except a bow which is difficult or uncomfortable to hold and aim.

So in summary - no. Bow reaction doesn't really give me much feedback as long as it's within reasonable bounds.

[Erika]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Thanks for that, Erika. Would you say that you like the way a bow shoots, or dislike it, because of the way it draws rather than the way it reacts in the power stroke? I appreciate that the way it performs is very important but that's not the only consideration, or is it?
For instance, I know you are shooting very well with your current bow. Do you also like shooting it? Has that anything to do with the way it draws up or the way the shot feels during the power stroke?

As long as it shoots Xs, I don't care what it feels like, looks like or sounds like. All of that stuff is window dressing for your own comfort. I don't like any change... so I did not like the Guardian when I first shot it... but I was breaking National records every time I took it out. So who cares whether I like it? I got used to it and now it is 'my' bow. If I tried to change back to my old bow, I would no doubt hate it. Make a change to improve the shot, not to try and hide your own faults.

ie I'm currently looking at stabilizers again. The boys all think a different set up will help me cope better in wind. If comfort/sound/reaction was the only issue I wouldn't bother.

I do realise that this comes from changing up my bows every year (sometimes more often). But I think that it shows fault with your form if you can't change up your bows without problems.

[geoffretired]

Thanks Furface and Murray.
Some more interesting information for me to work with. I think the differences in the answers is helping me clarify my own thoughts.
Different bows can feel quite different during the follow through. That can be no real problem unless the feel is very "odd". The bow I have at present gives different reactions, if I do things differently at the time when the release is about to take place. I think that could be called feedback. I assume that it is a good thing that it tells me when I have done things differently. I wonder if, at the same time, it is so sensitive to the smallest changes that I can't settle into a routine, because I keep on being told, I changed something that time;but never find out what it was.
Is it possible for a particular bow to be over sensitive for some archers? Fine for the top ones who are good enough to correct and refine their technique; not so good for archers like me who are re-building their form.

[geoffretired]

Thanks again Erika.
I have no doubts that I have problems with my form. My scores tell me that regularly.
I think it was Marcus who wrote in a recent thread, that some archers can't shoot so well with some bows.( those are not his words but I think that's what he was getting at) I am wondering if that's connected to the way the bow draws or the way it reacts during the power stroke.

[ASW1973]

grip and how it is formed by a cpecific archer is all about torque and how still the bow holds (erica is right and as she says this is also done with stabilsers). What the bow does after u have pressed the trigger or let go of the string.... Who cares.
Bows that shoot tens have great reactions as far as the archer is concerned
This can only be achieved by good balance and reduced torque at full draw and this is what the grip does.... and stabilisers.
One can shoot round any problem of grip or balance but when a certain level of pressure is exerted the performance will fail

[geoffretired]

ASW1973, thanks for the input. I am going to have to translate that into my own words to see if I have understood exactly what you have said.

Bows that shoot tens have great reactions as far as the archer is concerned=
if a bow shoots tens, the archer who shoots those tens with it will say it has great reactions.(would that imply that an archer with poor technique might shoot poor scores with the same bow and describe the reactions as poor?)

One can shoot round any problem of grip or balance but when a certain level of pressure is exerted the performance will fail.
I'm not too clear on this one but I think it means that if you have a problem with balance and grip you might get away with it up to a point until faced with the extra pressure of a competition, for example. Better to sort those problems properly.