Exchange ss piles for tungstens to stiffen X10's

[King Custard]

Just about to order my new X10' shafts 600 spine..
Question:
I am intending to use stainless points - cant see much benefit personally in going for tungsten yet - BUT-
if I increase my poundage soon- thus making the new arrows a bit weak -
Can I then go over to tungstens....and the resultant shorter arrow length then stiffen up the arrow a bit?Has anyone changed their stainless for tungsten points and recorded any effective spine change while keeping the shaft length the same?
Would you please share your findings?
Thanks

[Duss]

Tungstens will have 10 grains more, BUT a lot less in insert length. The weakening will then come more from the releasing of a longer length of arrow tube for flexion, than from the additional weight.

You might even gain enough weakness by cutting down your stainless steel points.

The best example I found was in using full-length 100-grain points for ACE (100-90-80) instead of cut-down to 100 grains 120-grain points (120-110-100). The full-length point was giving a much stiffer arrow.

You might want to try it, or you might want to keep a high value of FOC.

[Shirt]

Too many variables to give advice, IMHO.

If you're planning to go up in poundage soon, why buy X10s when you can get something cheaper that will do in the short term?

[King Custard]

Ahh OK- so you are saying that just by changing from ss piles at full length to tungsten piles with one segment broken off would give me a weaker arrow....
rather than a stiffer arrow as I originally thought - due to the total arrow length being shorter -I thought it would stiffen.

Bugger - desperate for more arrows but best get new limbs first then.

Which begs the further question of optimum shaft length ......

When cutting X10 shafts How much shaft is optimum between pressure button and beginning of pile for both tungsten and ss tips/piles? at full draw
From videos it seems top shooters are using 'long' arrows ie clicker blade well forward on the plate

[Murray]

Originally Posted by Shirt

why buy X10s when you can get something cheaper that will do in the short term?

Same answer as to the question "why would a 1st class archer buy X10s in the first place"... money to burn

[simon m]

Spine only comes from "the amount of arrow tube available to bend"

Effectively putting long pile inserts in reduces the amount the front few inches of the shaft can bend.

Tungsten is denser than stainless (Mass, Weight, Density or Specific Gravity of Different Metals)

So for the same pile weight the insert will be shorter. Therefore allowing more of the tube to flex.

(The actual flexibility of the pile material is almost a non issue i would say)

Overall arrow length could differ somewhat due to pile design/shape/type

Even nock type/design could effect it, but it(overall length) will not effect the spine

[moo-mop]

Would be rather surprised if you could switch the points over and have a usable arrow, I needed longer shafts to switch, there's that much difference in the two point lengths. Unless your arrow is too long in the first place that is.

A usual distance is to have your clicker just slightly more towards the target than the back of the bow.

btw even Easton don't claim tungsten give you any more points at the target - rather that they make a more durable arrow. This is why I'm using them as opposed to steel (even with the current steel points I lost too many arrows to be happy with x10s and the normal points).

[Duss]

You can shoot with the arrow length you like. Adjust (or build) the clicker extension plates so that your clicker is perpendicular to the arrow.

Some people like to have their "front node" close behind the pressure button. That usually means a longish arrow.

Use the length that is "tuned" to your bow and shooting style. Do not cut them too fast. Test, cut, test, cut...

Adding weight to the tail end stiffens your arrow, like does using pin nocks.

[moo-mop]

Originally Posted by Duss

You can shoot with the arrow length you like.

Eh? I don't think so, you've got to get it sensible - although there's quite a wide range of lengths that'd work just fine I'm sure if that's what you mean.

You'd be loosing points if you have an arrow that sticks out the front too much it's as simple as they'd fly funny as there's no way you'd get them to match the bow at all - you'd end up with silly spine choices. I guess you buy the right length (ie so total arrow length is the same whatever points) but do so in the in the right spine which may not be the same. As you say you can see in top archers about what this length is. If you've got spine wrong adjust bow weight or buy more arrows.

[Duss]

Sorry, but I must disagree with you moo-mop.

NOTHING in bow dynamics says that one cannot tune an arrow at any length provided it stays on the bow while drawing.

The "flying funny" you refer to certainly would be due to an "untuned" arrow.

If your Berger button, your drawlength, the spine, the bracing height, the point (pile) weight, AND arrow length give you a "tuned" arrow then you are ON. There are enough variables to make your life miserable if you DO NOT use them, but if you do, there you go.

The problem with cutting arrows at a predtermined length and THEN starting the tuning process lies with your wallet An arrow almost never is too long, but too short is a huge problem.

There is no problem with having an arrow that protrudes 2 or 3 inches from the front of the bow.