bow shoulder again, sorry;help!

[geoffretired]

Having read many of the posts on several other threads, I would just like to sort this out in my own mind.
If I write out all my thoughts, perhaps any mistakes can be corrected so that I eventually fully understand.
At full draw, I need my bow shoulder to be down and in line, as close as possible, with the draw force line.This should/will allow it to be as relaxed as possible and secure/firm and steady for the aim.
Pushing the bow shoulder towards the target will move the shoulder from its secure position using muscles instead of bone on bone strength, so avoid that.
As the draw elbow moves around to produce the draw length for the clicker,there is very little increase in draw length and therefore poundage stays almost the same.(Think about/feel movement rather than increased back tension)
Keeping the bow arm steady is mainly about resisting the draw force through the bow, which is tending to pull the bow arm across to the right(RH archer)
The back muscles have been resisting that force all through the draw so they are getting used to that and the force has almost reached a settled state.
There is, therefore, no need to increase that resistance or change the direction by pushing to the gold.
On release, the bow arm will move left as the bow's force, pulling to the right, has been removed but the back muscles are still working.
The bow arm will drop a little, too as the weight of the bow is now all on one arm. Just before the release, there was a bit of an upward force from the draw arm as that is acting above the bow shoulder, tending to try to lift it and help balance the pull of gravity on the bow.
I hope some of that is correct so I don't have to re-think everything.

[cliveanne]

I'll go along with what you say there, but I think you need to be aware that the way the bow is held can have a great influence.
The "Grip" can be anything from a total relaxed state to a "Death grip" (Creating torque).
Also it can affect coming through the clicker or not.
I see archers shooting with stiff bow fingers relying totally on the sling, finger, wrist, or other.
Stiff fingers = stiff bow hand. Surly this is going to create variations in the shot, which then negates any good that back tension gives to the shot.
Keep the bow hand "Soft", this then will go a long way to a "Straight shot"

[geoffretired]

Thanks for that Cliveanne, as you say, keep the hand soft too.

[Thunk]

Geoff, that is most helpful. I for one have always been somewhat confused by the apparent contradiction between 'bone on bone' and 'pushing toward the target'. Your explanation has cleared my thinking on this point. Thank you.

[Neo]

I find that the compression in the shoulder gives me problems, could this be me not allowing bone on bone and usng muscles that shouldn't?

[Robin the Hood]

Hi once again Geoff.
The buisness about the alignment all falls back to how near to relaxed you can be to get the minimum resistance. ie.
1) The front arm needs to be in the relaxed state from the moment of the draw, otherwise once tension is under pressure it is not removable. by starting that way the only tension that might be applied is minimal and only what is necessary.
2) The draw arm is simular in being relaxed, this is providing the back is used. As far as the draw arm coming to a point of virtually no movement, this is true but it must not stop the movement as this contributes to a clean follow through, whereas if it stops, then this is where the forward loose enters the sequence.

Paul.....

[geoffretired]

Hi Derik, I'm glad my post clarified some things for you. I am hoping that what I have written is correct!!!
Paul, I think you are right, relaxed bow arm for as much of the draw as possible.Perhaps a bow arm that isn't relaxed at the start, is a sign that it is not aligned properly from the beginning??
Again, (looking for confirmation,) but I would agree that the draw elbow doesn't stop moving until the end of the follow through; not the full draw position.
Neo, I'm not exactly clear about "compression in the shoulder". Do you mean you feel you have to do some compressing with the shoulder muscles or are you feeling that the shoulder gets compressed by the poundage of the bow?

[Neo]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Neo, I'm not exactly clear about "compression in the shoulder". Do you mean you feel you have to do some compressing with the shoulder muscles or are you feeling that the shoulder gets compressed by the poundage of the bow?

Compression in my shoulder. I can pull to full draw then when pulling through the clicker i have been experiencing pain as though my shoulder joint is being pushed too far into the socket!

I have ince had a cortozone injection and am still of archery until mid NOV when i see the specialist.

I jst dont wnt to damage it the first time back to my club.

[geoffretired]

Neo, if you are seeing a specialist I would ask him/her about the reasons for the pain and ways of preventing it from returning. The cause may or may not be archery related.
I was told, that movement of joints under load can cause more damage than having the joint steady under load. If that is correct (I stress IF) there are implications that the bow shoulder should be more or less in the right position all through the draw, as opposed to movinging round into line at the end.