XQ1's and a Nexus, braceheight, cast and tennis elbow too

[King Custard]

I haven't posted for a while so I thought i'd chuck it all in..just to show my face kinda thing.
Boy am I shooting badly- almost to the point of giving it a rest! Bought heavier limbs but cant keep even the old sightmarks

History to present:

All started some weeks ago when I realised that my tiller adjustment had slipped causing loads of contact, ripped fletches and embarrassing scores. Set the bow up again with the usual 38lb border XP10's. Seing as Im most comfortable and consistent pulling just 26ins of arrow (to the button center) I had them wound right up- maxed out (and stacking maybe) to give me the 'thrust' I need for 80 to 100yards.....time for new limbs thought I!
I was offerred a very cheap pair of W&W XQ-1's at 40 lb, researched the net to find very little except that they were 'decent', and seeing as they'd obviously been shot so sparingly snapped them up as forerunners of the winnex's...and as I thought likely as fast as my XP10's.
Chucked 'em on the bow without even adjusting braceheight or tiller bolts- and shot three dozen........
very smooth through the clicker, sounded very sweet, groups were good at 50 yards- but low....The extra poundage suddenly gave me what feels like tennis elbow in my draw arm........oooookayyyy I thought, i'll give the arm a bit of a rest- and adjust nockpoint over the next couple of short sessions.
OK so now Im back to shooting ( cant miss archery for long) - arm still painful as hell- shooting pains up and down the length of the arm, even laying in bed!......and trying to get these higher poundage limbs to shoot as far as my borders did - after all- they're higher poundage limbs...supposedly decently fast...and I'm pulling 39lb plus ie: putting in more effort.....BUT my sightmarks are a half inch worse!!! ( meaning I cant reach 100 yards without pulling my sight in- dont wanna do that- dont wanna send my arrows higher into the sky to make 100 yards - the whole point of heavier limbs was that i could lower the effect of wind!)

Bare shafts are grouping with fletched at 30yards- a tune I'd never previously achieved...and still sightmarks are down. Adjusting tiller another 2 and 4mm didnt acheive a better cast either - (I know i shouldn't expect it to gain much, but I had to see what effect it had).......and even lowering the nockpoint ( to below where bareshaft test says it should be) to acheive further distance hasn't given me much more ' cast' or distance either.

Are XQ-1's at 40lb really so much slower than an old pair of XP10's that are 2lb lighter??? I wouldn't have guessed so. Not being 'elbow fit' enough to try at the moment I can only guess that I'd have to max these XQ-1's out to acheive the same distances/sight settings as my old borders.
This is where the problem is at the moment.

Now, anyone will tell you that Im no master of tuning - I try hard, but reap little - a decent tune for me Even when I'm following a procedure like James Parks is only ever hit upon by luck...and... in the end!
BTW - I am shooting through the center of the bow, and at full draw the longrod is pointing to the gold, and occaisionally getting arrow/rest contact...I know this cos my spigarrelli's arm is set so light it stays in if there's any contact

So here I am with the thinking so far:
Either these XQ-1's I've just paid for are poop compared to XP10's OR...( and this is where I just may be excelling myself intellectually..)
I need to 'deliver' more energy into the arrow..( am I on the right lines here?)

SO.. I need a lower braceheight (yes?) more powerstroke (yes?) and thus more energy transfer to the arrow ( oh please say yes!#)

Right then- this W&W limb and Nexus riser combo is lovely and quiet at a brace height of 9 and 1/8 inches to the center of the button ( maximum according to Hoyt) BUT where the string 'fits around the recurve of the limbs' - theres no 'goove' left...ie the string with its serving completely fills the groove.( and this is where I need to know what the "proper fit around the recurve Should be" cos this doesn't look right to me)
Now I'm thinking... ( and maybe I do this thinking thing too much) That I now need a shorter string, or more twists in it to get the string/recurve fit looking right (yes?...what exactly is 'looking right' though)
BUT wont that make my braceheight even higher??? and give a shorter powerstroke??? and less cast?

How on earth can I get these XQ1's to shoot as far my Borders?

OR is it the case that there are just some mixes of limbs and risers - that plain won't work together!

Other thoughts are that maybe- where I still have low profile plastic fletches on my arrows rather than the spinwings that kept getting ripped before due to tiller slippage- that its the extra weight on the back of my X10 arrows thats ruining sightmarks?.....what by a whole half inch??...nah...
So what to do?
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that this is definitely an equipment issue...and definitely NOT an archer issue - I'm Sure I'm shooting the same.
So How do I Make these limbs work?

[Perks]

First things first you do not need an internet forum for your arm; you need a doctor.

As for the equipment; have you measured the draw weight of the limbs, or just read the labels? You mention that you have managed to get a decent bare shaft tune at 30 yards for the first time, what was happening with the old limbs? Arrows showing too stiff, too weak or too random? I'm asking this as marked weights on bow limbs are not necessary comparable, particularly at draw lengths other than 28 inches and between brands.
Next are the two sets of limbs the same length? With a short draw length like yours longer limbs just won't bend enough to work efficiently, so longer limb poorer cast.

Finally if you manage to get your arm sorted I wouldn't worry about sight marks or tuning for a while just relax and enjoy shooting for a bit until the new year as you are unlikely to need to shoot 100 yards during the indoor season.

[WhitehartFB]

In my opinion (not a medical person) surely most of your problem at the moment is your arm, it must be interfering with your shooting and your ability to get the best out of your kit making any comparison or tuning very difficult as you will be compensating for the pain.

If it is tennis elbow there is an elbow brace that you can buy with a pressure pad where the centre of the pain is, told they do help and some archers swear by it, but unfortunately rest is the only thing that will cure it.

What is tiller slippage?

[kato]

Originally Posted by Whitehart

What is tiller slippage?

you go blind if you get too much of it...

[King Custard]

'Blind? wha...?' No, no, 'tiller slippage' is not meant to refer to 'self help' nor to dating checkout supervisors Kato.....or anything like that...honest!..but is referring to shot vibrations loosening a tiller bolt- slowly over time..(cos I hadn't locked it properly I guess.)

To answer the question - yes Im now pulling more draw weight with the XQ1's (double-checked by Easton scales) for the arrows to fall shorter for a given sightmark..finger placement is the same and I'm not 'hunching the shoulder' under the small extra drawweight. Previously my arrows bareshafted a tad stiff. Now I can get them spot on. Both limb sets are 68 inch- I forsook ever trying 66 inch limbs as yet, as I used to suffer from pinching the arrow nock. I dont do that now though.

Thanks Perks- I'd really not considered that different limbs would have a different 'power curve' or drawforce curve is it called? That may be the needed answer. Yay! Yet more Limbs to play with!
Anyone got something like a pair of 40lb winnex's 66 or 68 inch going reasonably cheap- or to try?...It is Christmas

The advise to sort the elbow out is sensible too, but who really wants to give up their favourite pastime just because it hurts?...not me, the old man I am still remembers the young boy who would 'run off' any strains and pains, maybe I am no longer indestructible!

I must get this sorted quick though rather than stave it off till the outdoor season - I have bowman scores to make, and I dont want to be fiddling with new equipment and tuning then. Personally I'm not fond of shooting indoors- to me the indoor season is just 'preparation time' for the serious shooting outside. Cheers all.

[WhitehartFB]

Originally Posted by King Custard

The advise to sort the elbow out is sensible too, but who really wants to give up their favourite pastime just because it hurts?...not me, the old man I am still remembers the young boy who would 'run off' any strains and pains, maybe I am no longer indestructible!

The trouble is that unlike that broken leg in the first half of a match and the use of that great cold spray they have now banned or the freezing cold wet sponge the only cure for tennis elbow is rest, you just cannot ignore it it only gets worse. But as you say that's how it's done these days might be worth investing in the elbow thing though.

[King Custard]

[quote=Whitehart;185168]
If it is tennis elbow there is an elbow brace that you can buy with a pressure pad where the centre of the pain is, told they do help and some archers swear by it, but unfortunately rest is the only thing that will cure it.
QUOTE]
Hi Whitehart, This elbow thing with the pad...do you have any more info on that please, like, where to get one?
Or is it similar to the ebay article that Schme has posted about? (- cos the 'elbow' one of those just looks daft being placed on the forearm! ...like putting insoles in your shoes for a headache...but then I suppose- that is the basis of reflexology.)

>..and would you know of any great dealers that'll do a trade in for these XQ's ..somewhere between East London and Braintree perhaps?

[WhitehartFB]

[quote=King Custard;185269]

Originally Posted by Whitehart

If it is tennis elbow there is an elbow brace that you can buy with a pressure pad where the centre of the pain is, told they do help and some archers swear by it, but unfortunately rest is the only thing that will cure it.
QUOTE]
Hi Whitehart, This elbow thing with the pad...do you have any more info on that please, like, where to get one?
Or is it similar to the ebay article that Schme has posted about? (- cos the 'elbow' one of those just looks daft being placed on the forearm! ...like putting insoles in your shoes for a headache...but then I suppose- that is the basis of reflexology.)

>..and would you know of any great dealers that'll do a trade in for these XQ's ..somewhere between East London and Braintree perhaps?

I will ask Bert tomorrow which one he knows of that has worked for members of his club. Just done a google search and there seems to be quite a lot of options some look quite unobtrusive. They seem to work because they support and restrict some movement to allow the tendons to heal.

Diplomatically - Why not pop along to Albermarles' Archery bring and buy sale on Saturday (Harold Wood) and sell them there, Bert will also be there selling off a load of stuff including my 35" 4T End Cap Beiter Long rod, or put them on ebay where things still seem to go for more than retail

[Schme1440]

Kevin Sinclair from West Essex recently had his tennis elbow flair up. He used a brace but it still caused him problems. When it was windy it was painfull to fight the wind. My advise. Just dont shoot till its better. Dont want to agrivate it. My shoulder has been dodge for a couple weeks and I havent shot for about 2 weeks. its getting better but Im even doubtfull it will be back to normal for next weeks WEB Indoor Portsmouth Open or even the clophill shoot Early December. Rest it!

[Madarro]

Mr custard sir!
You could perhaps listen to your bod and realise that the time has come to become an advanced archer - turn to the dark side - get a compound!