The Coaches paradox

[Rhys]

An excellent post! I've finally decided to do the level 1 course, but even the person organising the course has told me that they've seen I'm perfectly capable of more and that its just a load of paperwork to cover my **** when coaching outside of Uni.

As for GNAS coaches I wouldnt tar them all with the same brush, but have had similar experiences to IronMonkey where county coaches just walk up to me and say something like "Oh you're pushing with your shoulder, you should try and feel it on your back, try squeezing your shoulder blades together" or other such comments that I reckon they dole out to anyone who walks by. My other favourite is "I dont believe in clickers, if you came here regularly I'd get you to try shooting without one"

So although Meddler says its a minority, I've found 3/5 so far. (However the two were excellent) I imagine the people on here are more likely to be willing to search out new information and gain advice. (I know geoff is also trying to learn from more experienced coaches o here) I think maybe those clubs with a single county coach whos been there so long on their own as the senior coach that probably have the trouble.

[geoffretired]

Originally Posted by Rhys

been there so long on their own

I think this is a very important point.
As a coach within the scheme, I feel "alone" in what I do.
Perhaps, if there were other coaches at my club, I might feel less isolated.
I get support from members of this forum; I get up to date information, too.
I feel that could be because so many here are "Like Minded".

[Robin the Hood]

Originally Posted by thewayitwas

I've had to read this thread twice to get the full picture. I am also a GNAS (County) Coach.

It is not enough to be able to observe a 'fault' in an archers technique and state what the 'prefered' remedy is, without being able to explain, simply, succinctly and accurately the cause(s) creating the 'fault'. That at least was drilled into me in both my GNAS coach training course.

After all that I need a whisky

This is where you've hit it right on the nose.
I've seen people in so called Coaching where the archer has been told what they are doing wrong. But no remedy is given. To me the good coach comes under what you have said above.
I admit I'm probably one of the archers picking on the Coaching System. But it is not the coaches theselves that are in the shooting line in my mind, but the reasons the courses are used by some.

Paul

[Mistake]

Originally Posted by thewayitwas

I've had to read this thread twice to get the full picture. I am also a GNAS (County) Coach.

This perception thing: The only place I hear GNAS Coaches being slagged off is on forums like this one.....

....After all that I need a whisky

If i'm honest, i think that the majority of coaches that are slagged off tend to be the "newer" style coaches... ie: the ones that have had to wade through the mountains of paperwork.

Last year (despite many other failings involved in the training) i met and was taught by some good coaches (such as Not Dead Yet) who where turned down by GNAS to be county coaches, but conversly on the same training sessions, i had to ignore someone who struck me as a not quite a good a coach (and was a newer style coach), and it may just be me and how i work, but i remember the bad advice i was given as clear as the good advice, which (tbh) messed my shooting up for a couple of months (read a good deal of the outdoor season) and is most likly part of the reason i didn't re-qualify for the same training this year, despite being (in my mind) more than capable of getting on the squad.

That said... i'm not having ago at the newer coaches... some are actually good coaches, and genuienly want to help archers improve, and dispise the amount of paper work that people have to do for coach courses

[Robin the Hood]

'Not Dead Yet' might be 'great' as a Coach.......But as a learner he's 'B....y Hopeless'.
.. .. .. .. .. .. ..

Paul

[Little Miss Purple]

Originally Posted by Robin the Hood

'Not Dead Yet' might be 'great' as a Coach.......But as a learner he's 'B....y Hopeless'.
.. .. .. .. .. .. ..

Paul

You can say that again Paul.... but secretly he is listening

[King Custard]

Originally Posted by Furface

Last week I turned up expecting to run a "Coaching " session where Coaching is available to those what want it. One archer turned up to shoot. When no one else arrived, I offered to work with him on anything he liked, but he said he knew all his own faults by himself, thanks.
So, a question. Coaches are told not to approach archers with advice or offers to "help". Most archers at my club say they're not interested in being coached, often because they believe it doesn't help. So no opportunities to demonstrate that coaching does help. How do others break this circle?

How about Beat them convincingly off the same target...then ask them 'How comes you didn't win?....Are you looking to improve?...What would You say you need to work on then? and How are you going to do that? How can you make the 'Most' of your shooting time? Are you doing that?
Sadly there's tons of people around- even archers- that are of the opinion .... " well if you can't beat me then you're not better than me - and if you're not better than me then you can't teach me nothing "...
and many more that will only listen to themselves - so give them what they crave..their own voice...right up till they realise that they don't have the answers.
Thing is you really better Have those answers- accurate and succint...or you run the risk of being thought of as an interfering, self-agrandising, know-nowt busybody.
mmmm yeah - sometimes it's better to not even offer help!

[geoffretired]

Yorker, if an archer has the right knowledge and the right attitude to coaching others, as you say, does it matter how the knowledge was arrived at. The certificate means very little if there is no substance behind it.

[cliveanne]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Yorker, if an archer has the right knowledge and the right attitude to coaching others, as you say, does it matter how the knowledge was arrived at. The certificate means very little if there is no substance behind it.

I'll go along with that
One of our coaches is not a coach, Why? No paper work. Just 20+yrs experience & the willingness to pass on his knowledge. In the past, he has taken 2 of our archers on to international level, also a young lady from another club as well. (One of them is now training for the Olympics).
Like the CRB it is just another piece of paper that we have to obtain to meet certain criteria.

[geoffretired]

Yorker, Would you consider getting a certificate? It would mean starting at the bottom and going through the processes. You might learn a little and it would cost you in time and money.
If there was a faster route for archers with a track record as coaches; would you accept that route?