Tiller - What does it do actually? What is its purpose?

[pHz]

Originally Posted by Watch_Man

I think this is very unfair, Pete-60 was expressing an opinion based on what he was told by Simon at a shop who setup his bow. If everyone on this thread only posted what they could prove factual then it would be a very small forum indeed.
Your tone and attitude may put genuine members off answering questions such as this.

trevor - i vaguely remember the thread where the proof thing was mentioned and it was (AFAIR) a suggestion to protect beginners from erroneous advice

in this situation - if pete had just said 'when i had my bow set up at a shop ... ' then i dont think colin would have reacted as he did

i think 'provenance' rather than 'proof' might be a better word ?

slainte rob

[TWIW]

The originator of this thread was asking for help. I.e. facts. Not the opinion of someone who was told how his compound was set up. There have been a number of tillering thre3ads in the past 2 to 3 months many with posts by the likes of Border et al who succinctly explained what tiller is and does for a bow.

If, on the otherhand pete-60 had preceded his post with a statement that this was how his (compound) had been set up for him then I would not have replied as I did, but he did not and wrote it as a statement of fact - an erroneous one according to better informed people than either me or himself.

I stand by my comments in their entirity.

There is far too much opinion, misinformation and downright lies posted on this forum at times which are stated as fact which only serve to confuse those who are genuinely seeking help and information.

If you can't prove it don't state is as fact. Express it as an opinion.

[rod]

during the ironman frostbite at frinsky i was shooting with pete, and found him to be a very likable chap.
tiller, just stick to the makers recommendations ie 0-3/8 inch positive, concentrate on your form, when you get to something like bowman or master then tinkering with tiller may get you a few more points, until you reach that level of competence you are just wasting your time.
i shoot borders so i set my tiller at zero, which is what border recommend

[Jerry Tee]

Originally Posted by emdrum

Pete-60 has a good point here. In my previous post, I was referring to tiller on conventional bows rather than compound bows. I have a Bowtech Guardian and the tiller on that is set to zero, as advised by a shop. It shoots great.

I would surmise that issues of cam timing and bow symmetry override the tiller issues in the case of the Guardian, but this is only a guess on my part. This may not be the same for all compounds and, once again, I would advise following manufacturer's recommendations for the bow that you are shooting.

Cheers

Mike

Compound bow have other types of adjustment or compensation for tiller that may not be noticable. There could be differences between the top and bottom cams that alter the amount of string paid out when the bow is drawn and the mechanical advantage of one cam over the other which will produce tiller as the bow is drawn. These methods of tillering will not affect the static tiller.
The main point of setting tiller up is to get level nock travel. Which brings us rather neatly to the Bowtech Guardian. This bow along with a few others is NOT a standard type of compound, because the cams are slaved together, this means that the tiller can be set at zero and level nock travel will still be achieved.
Oneida and Blade Runner bows are also zero tiller bows again because the cams and limbs are slaved together If one tries to get ahead of the other then energy is transfered through the timing cable to the weaker limb.

[pHz]

Originally Posted by rod

i shoot borders so i set my tiller at zero, which is what border recommend

sort of rod ...

check recent threads for what sid actually recommends - i have my limbs (border / merlin) set at zero measured to the limb butts but it turns out this may not be accurate - border recommend setting both limb pockets the same in terms of number of turns on the limb bolts rather than actually measuring to the limb butts themselves

slainte rob

[Watch_Man]

Originally Posted by pHz

trevor - i vaguely remember the thread where the proof thing was mentioned and it was (AFAIR) a suggestion to protect beginners from erroneous advice

in this situation - if pete had just said 'when i had my bow set up at a shop ... ' then i dont think colin would have reacted as he did

i think 'provenance' rather than 'proof' might be a better word ?

slainte rob

Rob and thewayitwas I can see where you are coming from and in principal agree with what you are saying regarding misleading information being posted.

However as there is no sticky on this section with guidance to those replying to posts I think it is unfair to expect a relatively new member as Pete-60 to have scanned back through all the posts for guidance on how he should reply to a question. I am not disputing what you say regarding prior discussion, just that it was not reasonable to expect Pete or anyone else for that matter to know about this if they were not round at the time it was discussed.

thewayitwas my problem is the way you replied to the post, in such a way that you took it for granted that all members should know about what was said several months ago (or however long) - perhaps you should look at a members join date and be more tolerant, guiding them towards the correct way to answer a question and not snapping someones head off.

[geoffretired]

" If everyone on this thread only posted what they could prove factual then it would be a very small forum indeed."

I think the "tiller" question has been answered, so I hope I am not hijacking this thread.
I think the quote above is very important to this forum.I frequently add my two pennies worth, believing it to be the truth. When it is proved to be wrong by others who point out my errors, I learn from their greater knowledge.I would prefer to have been right in the first place, but being corrected is better than being ignored; it leads to a better understanding for anyone who reads the thread.I think it would be a shame if users felt uncomfortable adding their posts for fear of being proved wrong. I have got used to that happening to me. I keep on posting, though, because the ways in which I am put right are friendly, well intentioned.I look at it this way; everytime I am proved wrong, I have learnt something new and better.
I do not undervalue accurate information; it is what we all want, I suspect(can't prove it though) I could PM certain members to find out what I need to know; couldn't we all? Where would that leave this forum?

[pHz]

rod - heres the relevant quote from sid / border -

Originally Posted by BorderBows

We are not suggesting that your setup is not working for you.

The advise on setting up tillered limbs would be (for a standard riser, read the manual for the specifics on your riser) Wind the bolts all the way in. Then unwind them out, say 4 full turns, to get to minimim setting on both bolts that are set equally, and that should be it as a rough setting, minor tweaks here and there, but measuring from the limb butt to your string should give about 3-5mm of difference with the bottom limb being the stronger, and giving the smaller distance from limb to string. This is the basic setting for most bows. The Equal weight limbs from some of the bigger companies would have the bolts at different settings and not equal.

We are not aware os any asymetrical risers, but you need to back off the locking bolts as they can be set at different locations giving the feeling of bottoming out... if you catch my drift.

apologies if you already know all this but it surprised me a little so im not sure how well known it is

slainte rob

[rod]

Originally Posted by pHz

rod - heres the relevant quote from sid / border -



apologies if you already know all this but it surprised me a little so im not sure how well known it is

slainte rob

yes rob thats the way i have set my bow. should have said this in my 1st post, sorry if i have mislead anyone. what i did was wind my limb bolts all the way in, then wind the bolts out exactly 3 turns. (zero tiller still) the assembled bow reads 1/8th positive.
i don't have any hoyt or win limbs so don't know how they would come out by this method.
maybe someone would be kind enough to post their results.

[BorderBows]

If tiller is built in to the limbs then equal bolt settings should be used.
If tiller is zero in the limbs (limbs are equal) then the bolt setting should be different to achieve difference in the tiller needed.

This pressure area on your hand within the grip and slight adjustments of these bolts are there to get the best tune for your specific setup. other than that, to measure tiller, measure it from the back of the limb butts to the string, where there should be a difference as described above

Hope this helps...