back elbow

[mk1]

Yeh - what he says above - I wouldn't worry about the height of your elbow but I would sort out the kink in your wrist. If you've no-one to help then use a light bow or elastic and practice setting up your drawing hand to elbow relationship and maintaining it throught the draw and look in the mirror to check you're wrist alignment is natural.

[Erika]

Good biomechanics didn't change in the night just because some of you can't work out how to do it. My elbow height is still a work in progress, so i know it isn't always easy.

If you have correct alignment everything works more efficiently and is therefore stronger and more consistent.

Just because a top archer does something wrong is not a recommendation for doing it. If you took every fault that top archers have and put them all in to one archer...guess what you'd have - a reeeeeeeally ordinary archer. They are good because of how few mistakes they make. Not because the few that they are making are okay.

The never ending question... I'm doing this wrong, but is it okay?
Well of course it's okay. The sky isn't going to fall, you aren't going to burn in hell and you may still shoot a PB. Can you achieve your full potential that way? No.

[pHz]

Originally Posted by Erika

The never ending question... I'm doing this wrong, but is it okay?
Well of course it's okay. The sky isn't going to fall, you aren't going to burn in hell and you may still shoot a PB. Can you achieve your full potential that way? No.

i agree - what you ask depends on your current level and what you want from archery - for me the actual question here was 'i dont have enough experience to know if this is wrong (and i dont currently have a coach) - if it is then how could i fix it ? '

just found this still from a video from the end of august last year -



- so whatever im now doing with that elbow has developed over the last 3 months or so (only major change in kit since then has been swapping the stock spigarelli grip for a jager - stabs have also changed but bow balance is VERY similar) - my reference points HAVE changed though so i wonder whether thats a contributary factor ?

slainte : rob

[Erika]

You're drawing the lines of force incorrectly. The front point should be lower down. Which may be confused if you are shooting a 'high' wrist position.

It isn't easy to fix your elbow height if your front shoulder is too high or if your bow arm wrist is too high.

Unfortunately it's all connected. When you adjust the front shoulder or the wrist you will change the draw length.

Changing grips can also affect draw length and everything else in turn.

[pHz]

Originally Posted by Erika

You're drawing the lines of force incorrectly. The front point should be lower down. Which may be confused if you are shooting a 'high' wrist position.
It isn't easy to fix your elbow height if your front shoulder is too high or if your bow arm wrist is too high.
Unfortunately it's all connected. When you adjust the front shoulder or the wrist you will change the draw length.
Changing grips can also affect draw length and everything else in turn.

thanks erika - that helps with the 'bigger picture'

point taken about the lines - in this context theyre really just arbitrary points of reference to compare the pictures (which are admittedly taken from slightly different angles so of limited value anyway i guess)

i suspect switching to the higher jager grip combined with a change of reference points (and trying to draw into a 'tight' / strong reference) has caused the change in elbow height

off to the club in the wet and the wind in a while to experiment a little

slainte : rob

[Murray]

As you are currently a 2nd class archer, I'd say the second of your pictures looks like a stronger form, but as I said, it's whatever works for you. I love it when people in this sport talk about "right" and "wrong" like there is such a rulebook we all must follow. Providing they can control the clicker and the timing and the reference and release is consistent, it's right for them.

It's a bit worrying that you're not sure how the change came about... do you keep a shooting diary?

Contents of a shooting diary might be:
Date, venue, scores, equipment changes, form changes, how you're feeling on the day, #arrows shot, that kind of thing - it's a great resource to look back on when you get to a point where you feel something isn't right.

[pHz]

Originally Posted by Murray

As you are currently a 2nd class archer, I'd say the second of your pictures looks like a stronger form. It's a bit worrying that you're not sure how the change came about... do you keep a shooting diary?
Contents of a shooting diary might be:
Date, venue, scores, equipment changes, form changes, how you're feeling on the day, #arrows shot, that kind of thing - it's a great resource to look back on when you get to a point where you feel something isn't right.

i do keep a limited shooting diary - my scores spreadsheets include columns for all the numerical data you mention plus a comments / notes column which records the form and equipment stuff - the one thing i dont usually record is how i feel etc

i dont video myself that regularly (no coach and all our club archers are of around my level or lower so noone more experienced to help) which is why i hadnt noticed sooner (also my performance has been slowly improving so i wasnt looking for things going wrong - i know - doing bad things consistently would give me that trend too) - if i had pinning the change down would have been easier i guess - as i mentioned in my last post i suspect the culprit is pulling upwards attempting to get a 'tight' reference

slainte : rob

[Desert Archer]

I would side with Murray on this. You do look stronger and more "aligned" in the second picture but we are all built differently and can't look the same or shoot exactly the same, as everyone else. Besides, anyone shooting a 2001 VBS is bound to be doing something right! (smiley face goes here)

Dave

[pHz]

ah - the perils of being self-taught !

shot today playing with the height of that back elbow and got a clubmate to observe what was going on - by the end of the morning im back closer to the vertical alignment in the second (older) picture with my arm nearer the horizontal and wrist way straighter

this has had some knock-on effects -

- (+ive) release feels much better and getting the follow-through round in contact with the jaw feels less 'forced' if that makes sense ?

- (+ive / -ive ? ) in line with what erika and others have implied my draw length seems to have increased by 15mm (keeping the arm down i was pulling straight through the clicker EVERY setup before getting anywhere near reference - the clicker was fitted just AFTER the first image was taken so might well have been part of the cause of the change ? )

- (-ive) my reference has become less 'tight' on my jaw - the contact feels less firm (presumably since im no longer pulling upwards against it ? ) - this bothers me a little but one thing at a time i guess

the effect of all this was hard to determine in a 20mph+ cross wind so its a wait until friday indoors to determine that i guess (unless the weather forecast is wrong and i get chance to get out under the lights one evening this week)

thanks again for your input everyone

slainte rob

[pHz]

Originally Posted by Yorker

Edit No. 2: Looking closer, guessing from the angle of the shot, the front shoulder is lower in the first pic compared to the second.

front shoulder had been my main preoccupation recently so hopefully it IS getting a little lower

slainte rob