Effect of incorrect limb alignment on Arrow spine choice.

[King Custard]

This journey through Archery truly is a compelling and absorbing route. Especially so with tuning - fascinating in it's frustrations!

Last week I decided to take the trip to KG 's in Nottingham (ish)- Keith Gascoigne's gaff. A family run business, the warmth of reception, painstaking attention to detail, and above all steadfast and confirmed knowledge and experience combined with patience to the 'n'th degree.

I simply cannot praise the place, and the staff enough- well worth a 300+mile round trip- I came home with JUST what I needed ( though not what I expected- in fact MORE than I expected).

Praise indeed! from me ..Mr Never Content! but more in another thread.

To limb alignment.and spine choice::::::::>

Christine sorted me out a pair crackingly good limbs and offered me use of the shooting lanes to try them out.
One look at my set-up and Keith knew the limbs weren't centered - no guages..no lasers...no tape and markers.
Adrian promptly realigned my limbs effectively moving my string one washer to the left........and I shot my usual X10's off of these surprisingly fast and stable limbs (Apex's).
Now then - unable to walk away without straining as much as I could out of the trip- I just had to buy new arrows didn't I....
And was prescribed ACE's in a 720 spine..
(much to my amazement and protest I admit)

You see- before having my limbs proffessionally aligned I'd been used to shooting these X10's, a 650 spine - off of Border XP10's@68ins, and found them if anything to be slightly weak.
Now - going up in poundage - going shorter to 66in , and clearly much Faster limbs, clever-ass me "Knew" I wanted stiffer arrows than 720's didn't I....

Nope, I wasn't going to get them! My protest was handled wonderfully and very confidently, which I have to say is now very much appreciated as I have the right arrows. These 720's fly even better than my old 650 X10's- And fletched and bareshafts are even very close together on the boss at 80 yards!!!! ( considering my shooting ability )

So why this essay???
Because it's been proved to me that EXACTlY correct limb alignment is of paramount importance in getting the right readings from your left/right impacts...and very likely to answer the issue of eastons charts being a bit off for some people and their setups!

I'll admit that I am comparing two arrow types here - ACE's and X10's but a 650 spine is a 650 spine- and always gonna be stiffer than 720 of the same length and similar point weight isn't it.

The point being that with my old alignment, the 650's showed slightly weak on a slower bow bareshafting to 30 yards at 38lb....I'd never bothered to bareshaft them at further

But now- with correct alignment - my 720's (weaker arrows) are spot on ( or near enough) at 80 yards!!!- with a Faster set up but at the same lb'age and just a 5gn lower total pointweight!!
Certainly my ACE's are a few grains lighter than my X10's and therefore a little faster too but the improvement in cast is amazing!

While there are a few factors to consider aiding this improvement in cast as mentioned above- I keep coming back to the fact that I've now had people that Really Really know their stuff handle my bow and align the limbs.

And the outcome? the lesson? - that just a few thou' adjustment in alignment can seriously affect which spine arrows to buy and play out to tune perfectly.

Maybe the easton charts are not that bad atall - maybe just most of us 'Don't have the eye of a Master Bowyer" - like Keith Gascoigne does.

Thanks to all at KG, to Julie and Neill too, (didn't get to meet Helen and young Matthew is a fantastic kid) - a superb day out- rich in every way.

Now - just to turn all the lessons and input - into better scores!

[geoffretired]

I'm not sure whether there is a question to answer or not either. Still, a nice post and I fully understand that feeling you get when someone "who knows" demonstrates it in real terms. Experts are always fascinating when in their element.
I wonder if a misaligned bow gives false readings because the eyeballing of the string and limbs etc. actually hides the truth. We see the arrow to string alignment or off-set, but we don't see the arrow's position in relation to the direction of string travel. Perhaps at full draw, the alignment looks quite different, but are we really looking at that point or too engrossed in aiming and shooting?

[krela]

Makes me wonder why my 26.5" ACE 720s spine hideously weak on very similar 66" 40# Border TXBs. I really need to measure the weight on my fingers.

[King Custard]

Originally Posted by sp220

I'm not quite sure if your post was a giant question to be answered in some way, if so, Ive missed it.

But KG are awesome. Keith is awesome - sometimes.... Christine is mostly awesome also.

I am not biassed because I work there... honest...

Statement really rather than question, with ponderings. having been around others who 'set-up' their bows ( and myself included) - aligning limbs is the first and quickest job to do, certainly if you're just looking for a string in the center of each limb and not centered on the grip too...but an easy thing to get wrong- as much as -I for one- would have argued that it was straight and center!

And for a small adjustment, now corrected, to have given me such misleading information as to have been a whole spine or maybe two out in my own choice of arrows - honestly- I find it incredible!
I wonder how many others are a tad out in their alignment and using the wrong spine arrows....or even trouncing spinecharts, when like myself, they just weren't set up properly from the very start?

SP works there??? no kidding? at KG? Swear I didn't come across any Christian Troy's while I was there....nope...not a superman anywhere, no piles of fanmail, no floosies at the door waiting for autographs..
Your day off was it?
and the floosies didn't know I was coming?

did i get that right from SP 220's post? - he works at KG?????
- cos they already have a coffee machine...I wonder what he does?.....

[King Custard]

aha..gottit. there he is!


modelling on page 27 of their catalogue

item 8618



Beaver balls

[Jay.g]

Yes Limb alighnment is paramont quite obviously, if its not aligned then the string would fling the arrow off to one side or another giving false impact results.

[SLOWHAND]

I was told some time ago that the Koreans prime objective was to get their limb alignment bang on, then everything else.

But you can't just get the alignment right first and then adjust draw weight and tiller because this may change the alignment. So first get your draw weight sorted, then your tiller (by plus on one limb and minus on the other) then limb alignment and then centre shot.

You also have to make sure that the long rod bushing is spot on if you are using the long rod as an aid to alignment. A quick way to check this is to mount the long rod in it's normal place and then mount your twins, one in the top rod bushing and one in the bottom rod bushing. Looking from the top of the bow to the bottom, if they are all perfectly in line then it's OK.

[King Custard]

To take a stab at a guess.. I think I'd have to mic' up any washers between your stabiliser components if there are any- just to be sure...to see if they're thinner one side than the other.
I have no idea what the tolerances are on press stamped washers, but I wouldn't be atall surprised if they're just 'industrial grade washers' rather than precision made parts and the slight run off on them only becomes visible at the longer length.

Or do you mean that the longer rod moves over...the whole thing- from base to tip?...almost like the bushing has 'transported itself over a mm or two'?

[King Custard]

I have exactly the same thing...can't explain why...wonder just how much odds it makes though.

weird!

[BorderBows]

its always good to strighten your bow, but isnt the centre shot adjustment on the button for that too?


Whats your sight marks at the longer distances like compaired to the xp10s, bearing in mind there is a slightly better cast from the lighter arrow...?