Take a look at these!

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by sp220

I can't comment on the technique, but:

After one of the videos (it may have been the last one), after one or two shots, you did appear to be breathing quite heavily, especially in-between shots, and I personally think this also contributed to slight instability/tremor at full draw.

I may not be able to comment on the technique, but I can say one thing for certain - and it depends on how "good" you actually want to be...

And if you want to be *really really really really* good, as in uber good... then breathing heavily purely after shooting and no other physical exertion indicates that you will have to become fitter to get to a very very high level.

Heavy breathing indicates you are building up an oxygen "debt" just from using the muscles to shoot. This could also cause some instability as muscles are then respiring anaerobically when you carry on shooting and using the same muscles (which can create tension).

This to me would indicate that increasing aerobic fitness by doing some (or more) cardio vascular excercise would be of benefit...

A person can be very good if not excellent pure on technique.. but...

Breathing heavily purely after shooting isnt conducive to great form, and archery in itself will NOT increase fitness levels enough to counter it, no matter how many arrows are shot per day.

This is one thing I am working on. Plus (just naturally) I dont breath at full draw. The high draw elbow can make it a pain sometimes to draw through the clicker on some occasions. Increased shooting and a re-start of my cardio vascular work would both help this.

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by ASW1973

the instability comes from a lack of rhythm (first part of draw is too quick and so actually slows down towards anchor losing power and bounces in anchor at one point). Front shoulder is actually quite good as is posture and then ruined at full draw with elevation of rear elbow causing an imbalance and lack of stability in front shoulder and posture so that you get stuck and when you are stuck you have nowhere to go.
So sort out rythm slow down the early parts of the draw.
Keep the alignement and balance you have achieved by not lifting the back elbow up into anchor.
all in all not a bad basis

Now I have had big problems trying to lower the elbow. Everything feels out of alignment for me when I drop the elbow down. When I lower the elbow to be inlign with the rest of the draw and along the "arrow line" it feels to me like it is actually lower then inline. Can you suggest any methods to remedy this apart from just simply drop it down? I have been told many a time to lower the elbow but no one has ever told me how. Local coaching for me is not really an option as I dont personally trust any of the coaches in my area to help me. None of the coaches in my club or area coach archers at a level at which I use to/currently/want to be shooting at.

[King Custard]

I'll take a poke at maybe standing in front of a full length mirror with a cliniband or similar - draw along the 'proper' line - check in mirror for visual confirmation- and maybe muscle memory will make it 'feel' a lot more natural??

[WhitehartFB]

Originally Posted by Schme1440

Now I have had big problems trying to lower the elbow. Everything feels out of alignment for me when I drop the elbow down. When I lower the elbow to be inlign with the rest of the draw and along the "arrow line" it feels to me like it is actually lower then inline. Can you suggest any methods to remedy this apart from just simply drop it down? I have been told many a time to lower the elbow but no one has ever told me how. Local coaching for me is not really an option as I dont personally trust any of the coaches in my area to help me. None of the coaches in my club or area coach archers at a level at which I use to/currently/want to be shooting at.

I understand what you are saying about feel this is because you are used to shooting the way you do. It's all about trust, get somebody like "MC" at your club to watch you I am sure he can be relied upon to make sure your elbow is not too low. Then it's a case of repeating it until it feels natural, that's the hard bit as we all slip back in to old habits very easily.

A while ago some pictures were posted from the out of print "shooting stars" book about a thread on using the back, but if my memory serves me right one of the pictures showed the movement/path of the drawing elbow this might help and get it clear in your own mind.

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by Whitehart

I understand what you are saying about feel this is because you are used to shooting the way you do. It's all about trust, get somebody like "MC" at your club to watch you I am sure he can be relied upon to make sure your elbow is not too low. Then it's a case of repeating it until it feels natural, that's the hard bit as we all slip back in to old habits very easily.

A while ago some pictures were posted from the out of print "shooting stars" book about a thread on using the back, but if my memory serves me right one of the pictures showed the movement/path of the drawing elbow this might help and get it clear in your own mind.

Im getting the feeling that there is no real tried and tested method to achieve what I need so I just need to work on it. Im thinking of setting up some sort of Camera tv setup so I can view the elbow. I think blood sweat and tears will be required when im back from Vegas to remedy this.

[Tropicalshot]

as i am seeing it,
when you draw in an open stance you twist your body to almost a closed stance,
does this not make your back sore after a while twisting whilst under full draw?
have you tried standing square and drawing square?
or keep and open stance and draw in the open stance and not twist your lower back?
just my observations

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by Tropicalshot

as i am seeing it,
when you draw in an open stance you twist your body to almost a closed stance,
does this not make your back sore after a while twisting whilst under full draw?
have you tried standing square and drawing square?
or keep and open stance and draw in the open stance and not twist your lower back?
just my observations

No I dont get any pain or soreness. Unfortunatly I am accustomed to standing like that and have done for many many years.