How important is a QUIET BH to YOU?

[King Custard]

For many I know, myself included, little items/areas of equipment tuning can seem like looking for the Holy Grail. One of the first and earliest (in the life of an archer) is to find the sweet-spot, or quiet spot of the brace height and much has been written about it.

But as I intend now to go and meditate over the following question I'm guessing you guys and gals will have indeed replied with numerous sensible answers before I am finished......

A few days back my bow was underbraced, by about 2.5mm I later found by using my ear to find the quietest setting - and it shot lovely if just a little noisier than my mates bow.
A bit of fiddling through the week found an ideal'er ( higher and quieter) BH which necessitated a tiny change in centershot for a nice straight line down the center of the boss during a walkback test...but I didn't check bareshaft.

Now if raising the BH- weakens arrows, but I really dont want to lose poundage...would dropping point weight by 5 or 10 grains get me back to bareshafting and walback'ing nicelyto 80 yards? Currently 95gn insert-plus-point

Or should I be more happy to shoot a noisier bow that 'stiffens' my arrows that little bit - rather than a dead quiet bow that seems to push my ACE720 arrows into the 'just a little weak zone'

TBH- trying to get my bow as quiet as the quietest bow on the line has been a long sort quest...and now I have it- I'm upset with the performance.
How necessary is Quiet?
Or- to have 'quiet' do I trim off an 1/8inch, lose point weight, or change to a slightly stiffer arrow maybe 700's...do Bieter make a slightly shorter No'2 nock for ACE's?

Yes I COULD add a little tension to the button- I tried this- but for perfection I'd need to skew the sight alignment a tiny bit to achieve shooting down the line at all distances....and I'm not sure I want to do that.

What would you do?- How do you see a resolution?

[rod]

K.C sounds like you are a great fiddler, bet if you had a picasso painting on your wall you would add a few brushstrokes.
a few weeks ago you posted how good your groups where at 80 yards after having K.G sort it out for you.
i am not being nasty, set your string so about 1 to 1.5 cm of your string groove is showing then concentrate on tightening the loose nut behind the string.

[Chris B]

As a shooter of Samick Extremes, i have an.. adjusted.. perception of what loud & quiet are (i also have a pair of XQ-1s - even louder!)

You can do one of 2 things here KC;
1)Tune it straight, regardless of BH, then try to make it quiet
2)Get it to the quiet BH, then tune the arrows to the bow, as you've already discussed. eg point weight, cutting arrows down, try different length points etc. (longer points of the same weight will come out stiffer (screw-ins are longer; worth a try if you have a spare set))

I would try no.1. Last summer i occasionally switched between two longrods i have; a 34" ACE, and a 30" HMC. I noticed that the quiet brace height was different for each rod, and that for the 34"ACE, it would only ever go quiet if the weights & doinker on the end were put on in a certain order (weight-doinker-weight, rather than doinker-weight-weight). Struck me as strange at the time, but i now understand abit more about the bow dynamics.

This stuff was a clue to me that the stabilisation, BH, tune, etc. are so interdependant its scary! Can the quietest BH be moved (higher or lower) by careful control of stabilisation? If so, can it be moved to coincide with a brace height which matches the stiffness of the arrows properly?

If it was me, i'd tune it straight (walk-back, & maybe bareshaft at 70m just to confirm), then maybe try to quieten it later. Maybe. (noise isn't that important for me. anyway, you'll never hear a pair of Extremes as quiet as a pair of G3s..)

good luck in the quest for the quietest bow!

[pHz]

to add a twist to this

is there a difference between a quiet bow and a 'sweet sounding' bow ?

i never set BH according to sound - i set mine as rod says to have a reasonable amount of string groove still showing (as long as its within manufacturers recommended limits obviously) - i do however try to make sure my bow is otherwise then tuned as well as i can within my ability band (using the james park method)

however - almost everyone who sees me shoot (including some pretty experienced archers from outside our club) tends to comment on how 'good' rather than 'quiet' my bow sounds

i dont think my bow is THAT quiet compared to other peoples but it does sound 'sweet' (not sure how to quantify that though ? ) - i hear some other archers shoot and their bows dont make a lot of noise but they do make 'awkward' sounding noises - dull / 'twangy' / 'slappy' / harsh / etc

maybe (as my other hobby is making music / working with digital audio) im over-sensitive to this but anyone else think its a factor - and if so how do you quantify it ?

slainte : rob

[King Custard]

Just as a quick reply to a couple of points - and thanks for raising them guys:

Yes- I am a great/terrible fiddler Rod- it's only by ringing the changes do we learn anything new...as the competitive season is not even started for me yet it's time now to get it all out of my system. yes groups were good, speed fantastic...forgiveness well um....and sound- not fantastic...balance was off enough to have me aiming and circling too long.
I admit I am forever intriqued as to why and how one change can have so many knock on effects.

A change in stab set-up promoted Just as Chris said- worse noise requiring BH adjustment....and while at it I thought I'd gratify myself with getting the sound as close to G3's as poss ( which was damn close) and I was proud of that. I'm just annoyed that in doing so I've found that the whole bow system works better at a lower BH than 'sounds' ideal. TBH I hate 'the wrong noise' as others might - it annoys me- grates on me...I was wondering if there are many archers that do accept anything but 'sweet sounding' so long as it gives the required results. I have convinced myself that 'sound' is not the be-all-and-end-all of BH.
And I think Yorker has answered that one...as will many others I'm sure.

As 'the greatest fiddler' around my parts-I'll only be completely content when everything's perfect and all the ssip takers that shoot on, year on year, with little or no progress nor much real understanding...you know those that really are using archaic methods and arguments for their reasoning and tuning- have to eat their quivers. ( with no-one in particular in mind- just an obsessive thing)

I'm eating, drinking, dreaming and breathing archery right now- totally absorbed by the whole thing...with a hunger for knowledge , experimentation, and results that's frightenning even me!
Frankly I'm in awe not just of the Top Shooters- but of the Top Tuners too- the top coaches- manufacturers, designers and so on and so on.
I can't put it into practice till I've learned it- can I?

So onward and upward - as I find these little 'advantages' and add them to my continued practice, I'm setting my aim, not as Bowman for 2008 ( a class that I was robbed of last year)...but of at least a very good Bowman- knocking on ( or looking towards) MB for '09. Ideally I'll have another of those GNAS Best Improved Handicap medals next year too!

It's not enough to keep your foot flat down to get to the finish post---- you have to steer too!

Right then, I'm off to count tens flashing up on a big screen- till I fall asleep!

I think I'll settle for more noise- knowing that I can IF I WANT make my bow do anything I desire.........even if the nut behind it is a little loose! Love that quip everytime!!

[Little Miss Purple]

I just shoot!!!

[Tropicalshot]

Originally Posted by King Custard

Now if raising the BH- weakens arrows, but I really dont want to lose poundage...What would you do?- How do you see a resolution?

i have been under the impression that raising the BH will stiffen the arrow as the arrow is not under the same amount of influence by the limbs as a low brace hieght,

a low BH will give you more cast and has more of the bows energy go through to the arrow working the spine more,
BH is there to get your arrow working to the correct spine for your poundage not to make the bow sound quieter, the only way to get a quiet bow is to stop vibration, to achieve that you have to put shock absorbers on your bow, rubber mounted stabs only change the frequency of the vibration so it sounds quieter. personaly who cares,
the arrow has gone, hopefully with the maximum amount of energy transference the arrow spine allows, whether the bow is quiet will not change where the arrow is flying to.(hopefully the 10)

Originally Posted by CC

TBH- trying to get my bow as quiet as the quietest bow on the line has been a long sort quest...

put string silencers on it

quiet is not necessary, good tuning and correct arrow spine is important

[ugley_matt]

I have tuned BH in the past by recording the height of my groups, changing the BH and seeing where the group is highest, this group had the most enegry transfered to them. My bow also sounded nice a quite and felt good too.

[johnske]

Originally Posted by ugley_matt

I have tuned BH in the past by recording the height of my groups, changing the BH and seeing where the group is highest, this group had the most enegry transfered to them. My bow also sounded nice a quite and felt good too.

Are you tuning the bows BH to shoot flight or target? If target, I would suggest that tuning it to whatever gives you the tightest possible groups would be far more important than how fast the arrow goes or what the bow feels or sounds like.

[Shirt]

If the arrow goes in the ten, really why does it matter how loud it sounds? I have about a half inch range on mine where the noise doesn't change that much and they still go where they're pointed (or as close as my groups allow, anyway)

Trying to set brace height to the millimetre sounds overkill to me.