On the Back - or off the shoulder

[King Custard]

YouTube - Shooting july 11th archery team usa best method

I have to say I don't like it - something about that draw scapula sticking out through the t-shirt on the back view....surely if the traps were fully engaged they would pull the scapula in against the ribcage.? But saying that he could probably shoot my nocks off at 90m.
shame he has the shirt on...makes it look all wrong to me.

[Albert]

If you are looking for the perfect release and follow through (they are one and the same; and only come from correct usage of the back muscles) look out for videos of Park Seung-Hyun. Her technique is (as far as I can see) is faultless.

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by King Custard

YouTube - Shooting july 11th archery team usa best method

I have to say I don't like it - something about that draw scapula sticking out through the t-shirt on the back view....surely if the traps were fully engaged they would pull the scapula in against the ribcage.? But saying that he could probably shoot my nocks off at 90m.
shame he has the shirt on...makes it look all wrong to me.

I used to over-rotate the drawing scapula aswell. It was a very memorable and repeatable action, but once i had loaded up the tension, though i could hold high draw weights for a long time, i found it hard to expand properly. I could hold 50#+ for along time, but it might take me anywhere up to 15 seconds to activate the clicker.
I got it by drawing to a point an inch or so below the anchor, and letting tension flow out of my arm, while really rotating the **** out of my scapula, all while i did a visual check on the point under the clicker!
A good coach told me that if you over rotate like this, so that your scapula sticks out like a wing, you have no rotation left, so your scapula has nowhere left to go when you're trying to pull through.

The lad in the video (Jake Kaminski) probably shouldn't have been doing that, regardless of who his coach was. I would put money on it that he isn't doing it anymore. Its just one of several flaws in that video that KSL wouldn't like.
No offence to Jake, but it looks like he's trying to make technical changes on a full-weight bow - difficult to say the least. Looks quite uncomfortable actually.

Originally Posted by Albert

If you are looking for the perfect release and follow through (they are one and the same; and only come from correct usage of the back muscles) look out for videos of Park Seung-Hyun. Her technique is (as far as I can see) is faultless.

YouTube - Park Sung Hyun
Good old youtube.
Remember though, no one has a "perfect" technique. Some of us will interpret imperfections even in the forms of the best in the world. Suffice to say, i wouldn't call this perfect.

To answer the original question; do i really believe i have 'back tension'?
As Archer Thom tells me, I must be getting some, or I wouldn't be able to group the way I do. But its not good enough.

[moo-mop]

Ahh here's pic:

[steve58]

Originally Posted by Yorker

The movement is happening in the rear shoulder - the front is already set by the predraw evidently however it is in fact exerting effort - just staionary.

I personally do something very similar, front shoulderblade does almost nothing in the draw

That makes sense, it's just that the opportunity to watch the muscles and shoulder blade working like that is so unusual. It's also rather different to the way I draw, so it doesn't fit my mental video of what is going on, live and learn!

[steve58]

Originally Posted by Erika

I don't do 'push/pull'. The front shoulder is just a platform around which everything else moves.

Glad my eyes weren't playing tricks, thanks. Really interesting video, made me think, even though I don't shoot like that.

[JohnK]

The way I used to shoot was to hinge at the rear shoulder joint, so I held virtually no weight on the back muscles at all. When I read Total Archery and got some more advice from a few excellent sources I realised what I had done wrong. I don't feel the back working, but I know if I can keep the rear shoulder low and - yes - push the rear scapula so it bulges out of my back, I'm using those muscles much more efficiently.

And no, I can't really feel it, but I have seen it in a photo and have found the difference in my ability to handle draw weight.

[Albert]

No, not perfect: ( bad choice of words, nothing in this world is perfect,). But I cannot find any faults in Her form.

[archer_thom]

After 2 years of "just shooting" very well, and 4 of trying to use good technique and failing miserably to the point of wanting to quit archery (or at least buy a compound) I have decided to ignore good technique and just shoot. Strangely his led to me shooting in a way that only a coach would object to and adding points to all my pbs. But having seen some comments about long forearms etc on this thread, here are some things that I've found my body just won't do:

Perfect alignment (nowhere near flexible enough)
Side anchor / Touch nose with string (these go together - my chin is really short so when I reach my back's optimum draw length I have a centre anchor and the string is nowhere near my chin. And leaning the head forwards just doesn't work)
Unlocked knees and elbows (I have dodgy hyperextended joints, and at about 20degrees of flex I lose control of them and they hyperextend. So I let them)
Hold bow vertical (for some reason I have always slightly canted the bow inwards, just a cm or two at the limb tip. It seems consistent and it's comfortable)

Anyone else have things they can't physically do?

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by archer_thom

quit archery (or at least buy a compound)

Same thing

Can't get my elbow on line yet. Last time I said this, I think it was Rhys (BUTC medallist, well done!!), who said that he had got nearly everyone he had worked with to get their drawing elbow on line.
I CAN do it with elastic band, using my normal anchor, (with equivalent drawweight ~55# so draw weight is no problem), but can't seem to be able to do it with my bow!!

Recently though, I've heard people (eg. Erika, correct me if im wrong) saying that the elbow doesn't need to be on line at full draw, but should be after the follow through, at least. And not many international archers get their elbows on line either.
That should be a source of relief, but i will keep trying anyway.