recommended sighting method for shooting without sights

[sambow]

Can anyone recommend a good book for learning finger shooting without a sight.

I am used to shooting freestyle where hand "anchoring" (ok I know that words not liked) and sighting is fairly straightforward.

My lad has just started shooting field with a longbow and I have decided to try and shoot without sights so I can help him if he needs it.

Finding somewhere consistent to place the string hand is not easy and the arrow does not seam to end up under my eye, so looking down the arrow ends up with shots going to the right (im left handed). Shooting on a constant target I can hit golds and reds from 20yds on a 80cm face, but to do so I point the arrow about 2feet to the left and 15" down from centre. I figure in the field I need a more consistent aiming method as I will only get one shot at it and the targets are all at different and unknown distances.

Can anyone ofer advice or good reading to give me an idea how to go about it?

[sambow]

Originally Posted by Yorker

Simplest way - draw and anchor like a sighted recurve and aim with the tip of the arrow. This can be achieved with the longbow tilted as well.

Only difference with the longbow is that you only have about 2 seconds to aim as opposed to as long as you wanna hold it with a recurve.

w
When you say anchor live sighted recurve. Do you mean under the chin? I have always been concerned that the arrow a long way away from the eye with this approach making "sighting" on the point more difficult.

[FlourPower]

I know a few barebow archers who shoot from under the chin. I wouldn't suggest it. Also for all but very close distances I'd suggest using something that isn't the arrow tip to aim with, your arrow moves because there are no draw checks. As consistant as you can be you can never be 100%, I use my arrow rest.

Anterior (thumbside edge) of the index finger can anchor nicely under the cheek bone, using a knuckle for reference. However right handed I'm unsuprised as to you shooting to the left. Archers Paradox. Take a look at a long bow archer and see how they shizzle that dizzle!

[Joester]

I wouldn't be inclined to go about shooting longbow, or any other bow without sights, in the same way as for recurve freestyle.

You need a way to get in touch with the arrow, and what it's going to do when you let go of it, rather than a consistant way of getting your sight lined up.

Here's how I shoot my barebow. This isn't gospel, just my way:

There's a fair bit of intution involved, but it's a 'developed intution' if you like.

I'd be inclined to develop the 'mediterranean loose' for starters (one finger above, and two underneath the arrow), this will allow the shooter to get a thumb under the chin, and the nock near the corner of the mouth. You can't pull the arrow any further, 'cos your face is in the way, so you have some repeatability in draw-length.
You'll also find that when you do this, the string falls in front of your right eye. I keep my left eye open to prevent the 'camera 1, camera 2' shift in perspective you get with one eye closed. (The human being is quite good at lining things up with two eyes, even though our eyes are 2 or 3 inches apart).

You can now, in the periphery of your vision, see the whole arrow shaft pointing target-wards. Get it lined-up, forsee the flight-path it will take when you let go of it shortly.

That done, if you want to 'shoot the gaps', you will have estimated the distance (or been given it for target/marked field rounds). Pop that arrow point on an appropriate leaf/shadow/piece of litter for distances below your 'point of aim', or on top of boss/top of target face/tree/cloud for distances in excess of your point of aim.

I don't gap shoot, or face/string walk (other ways of 'aiming' for a given distance), I simply try and adjust the apparent angle of the arrow in relation to the distance, whilst all the time staring at the point I want it to hit. This is tricky though, and takes a lot of arrows at all sorts of distances.

Anyway,
Now open your fingers (that's all, if you try to do a sighted recurve style loose, you'll snatch it, because your face, neck and thumb are all tied-in with this). I say 'plop' in my head, which people think is odd (when I tell them), but it helps make the loose a small event involving only the fingers, everything else stays still.

Hope some of that helps. There are hoards of people who could coach you and yours to shoot in a traditional way far better than I could.

Cheers!

[FlourPower]

Joester's idea of using just fingers is fine in theory however only through back tension and a recurve-esque release are you going to find consistancy. However with long bow you want to get on the back and shoot fairly quickly.

Yorker your suggestion that most peoples style is useless is ungrounded and really not in the BB/LB spirit. Oh wait you strapped sights on!

[bundy]

Originally Posted by sambow

Can anyone recommend a good book for learning finger shooting without a sight.

Is this the kind of thing you were looking for?

http://www.archery-interchange.com/f...bow-2-dvd.html

Originally Posted by sambow

Finding somewhere consistent to place the string hand is not easy and the arrow does not seam to end up under my eye, so looking down the arrow ends up with shots going to the right (im left handed). Shooting on a constant target I can hit golds and reds from 20yds on a 80cm face, but to do so I point the arrow about 2feet to the left and 15" down from centre. I figure in the field I need a more consistent aiming method as I will only get one shot at it and the targets are all at different and unknown distances.

Can anyone ofer advice or good reading to give me an idea how to go about it?

http://www.archery-interchange.com/f...e-bar-bow.html
And the comments on here show someone elses experience.

Personally I just go with point of arrow - Putting my index finger in the corner of my mouth - on a portsmouth I'm aiming at the floor between the stand, at 40m it'd just to the right of the gold, anything over that its somewhere in the (usually) trees behind the target.

Does that help?

Helen

[Joester]

Just to re-iterate, the question was about arrow alignment, not consistency.

The sighted recurve anchor (under chin) obviously has the promise of being the most consistent (that's why they use it), but it is (imho) ill-suited shooting without sights.

I don't know much about back tension, but I gather it is a healthy by-product of a good consistent draw that uses the shoulder, rather than the arm muscles.
With the way I shoot (which, note, does allow me to align my arrow perfectly with the gold), if I were to focus on back tension, and the release of that back tension (right hand/arm dropping beautifully out behind in recoil), then this would mean my hand would first have to veer rightwards across my chin before it could do that. Twang.

That said, I do draw the bow with my shoulder, not my arm. My right arm is relaxed apart from the Flexor muscles, a by-product of shooting off the fingers!

[Karen]

If you're going to shoot barebow recurve properly then why not use the three under and stringwalking technique (explained in full on the excellent Masters of the Barebow video) This puts the point in the centre of the target everytime and gives excellent results -.BUT

If you just want to be able to try what you're son is doing on the longbow then go and beg or borrow a longbow, not too strong ( maybe a few pounds more than your recurve poundage) and have a proper go your self - I bet you'll love it ! If you want to be able to help him learn you should learn yourself anyway, as it really is so different to classic recurve.

Longbow technique is hard and unforgiving of technical mistakes - all you have to adjust is the weight and spine of the arrows and your own technique, so perseverance is really the most needed attribute a lot of the time! Anchor point should probably be the corner of the mouth, though I would also include the proviso that you try to anchor against an upper jaw tooth, this being solid (lower jaw moves too much) - acts as a stop length for the draw. Then use either instinctive (much repetition of shots) or gap techniques (distance between point and target varies according to distance)

All of this is also in the above video, though not using an English Longbow, as its American, but its all still relevant.

Books - Coaching Longbow by Hugh Soar is very helpful (I got it off someone on ebay )

[Joester]

- Unless you're shooting NFAS, in which case string/face walking is prohibited, and also many bow styles (longbow included) only allow the med loose, not 3-fingers-under.

This also applies to the longbow when used in GNAS field events ('one anchor point' and 'one finger position on the string'), and to Recurve Traditional (barebow with wooden arrows) on both GNAS target and GNAS field.

[Karen]

Which is why I suggest he has a proper go at longbow himself !