tuning with a rigid button

[Chris B]

Thanks for the reply. Sounds almost exactly like what i do, but i don't normally group quite so well as that, on any given day.

[geoffretired]

Thanks for all the replies and the information in them.
My question was quite specific, perhaps I was not very clear on that aspect.
The method has been described by James Park and Dick Tone.
I follow the reasoning. What I was trying to find out was the effects you will see part way through the system.That is; when the bare shafts are beside the fletched,with a rigid button.And where will the sight be when the arrows are landing where aimed, still with a rigid button and arrow on centre.
Buzz, I appreciate your comments and don't wish to appear to ignore them. However the reason for my question is to gain a better understanding of the workings of the system. I am still a little unclear on some aspects of it, in the sense that I can't guess how things will appear part way through. My instinct is to expect the arrows to shoot straight ahead, as opposed to left or right of that line. Perhaps if that is right, then stiff arrows would be flying left and soft ones, right. I think I should also add that I am not recommending this as a tuning method; just trying to get my head round it all.

[buzz lite beer]

the concept of rigid button tuning can sound very convincing, but realistically trying to "match" a fletched arrow with it's inherent drag from the fletchings and the difference in dynamic spine from fletched to bare shaft is going to show huge and increasing in difference at any distance over 12m

[geoffretired]

Thanks Buzz,
I guess the archer needs to be shooting pretty well to get good results. That seems to be the case for most of the tuning methods I've read about.
Put another way, archers who are struggling with their form should expect results that don't necessarily resemble the expected ones.

[pHz]

Originally Posted by buzz lite beer

the concept of rigid button tuning can sound very convincing, but realistically trying to "match" a fletched arrow with it's inherent drag from the fletchings and the difference in dynamic spine from fletched to bare shaft is going to show huge and increasing in difference at any distance over 12m

dont necessarily disagree with most of that but (as a fan of the 'park' method) i would say it depends how you use it

i personally (with my current level of skill) wouldnt really trust a bareshaft at much beyond 30 yards but using the 20 yards stiff button / bareshaft method of bow setup i think is a great way of getting a decent initial tune before going and using other methods of fine tuning your setup if you want to

personally i now use the 'park' method to set everything up then do a 'traditional' walkback at longer distances to check everything (might tickle the button tension a little at this point if necessary) before just going and shooting the thing (anything beyond this would be pointless for someone of my ability)

sorry geoff - weve sidetracked your thread even more i think

slainte rob

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by pHz

i personally (with my current level of skill) wouldnt really trust a bareshaft at much beyond 30 yards
slainte rob

skill doesn't really come into it. bareshafts don't tell anyone anything beyond afew yards.

For a couple of weeks last summer i had a tune where i could get 9 out of 10 bareshafts within the blue at 100 yards. This may sound good, but i can tell you now that tune was a pile of poo!

If i felt even the slightest bit odd upon release, or did something only mildly silly, i would get a bad miss at 100yrds. It was a really bad tune, despite what the bareshafts were doing.

[buzz lite beer]

done pretty much the same, got bare shafts to shoot straight out to 100yds once fletched the arrows and they wouldn't group as well as the bare shafts.

[LineCutter]

I've always felt (no proof) that tuning like that was to the nth harmonic of the frequency of the oscillation. (I presume that means the arrow, although you should argue that it's the whole system)
If you think about the wavelength of the harmonics it explains why a "good" tune gives little spread, whereas a higher order harmonic has the potential to magnify the error you make hugely.

[/me waits for the physicists to get started )

[geoffretired]

Lots of interesting ideas, so I am learning, thanks.
Perhaps I could pull things back on track a little. I'm only thinking of matching the arrows to the bow; or bow to arrows if they are close enough. Tuning for groups is another issue, although related.
Imagine I am helping a recurve archer to set up their bow. We decide to use the rigid button method and get as far as bare shafts in the fletched group at 15y say. The sight is then adjusted to get impact matching the aimed point. My guess is that if the arrows showed a good match, up to this point, the sight would be almost directly above the arrow. Perhaps off set a little depending on the archer's string picture. I'd assume the closer the string picture to the centre of the dot, the closer the sight would be to being directly above the arrow.
If the archer found the sight was well away from this, in line position, would that indicate some problem with the bare shaft results?

[pHz]

that all SEEMS logical geoff - but when ive followed this method ive only ever been bothered about the results and not worried about what happens along the way (but then ive only ever done it for myself or zoe)

if it stops raining today zoe has a new set of arrows we need to match / tune - ill keep a special eye on what happens to the sight ring and post back this evening

slainte rob