Payment for Coaching

[not dead yet]

heck gone up again.......like everything else i suppose, didn't renew mine since about 2004/5

[not dead yet]

Originally Posted by Cimbian

My understanding is that fees received for have-a-go sessions and beginner courses are to be minuted and to go to the club's coffers but that coaching was outside of this provided that the coach is not operating in a professional capacity ie not making their primary living from coaching, otherwise where would the line be drawn when it comes to expenses? If my car cost 39p per mile to run including wear and tear and I charge 40p then by your definition I would not be insured; correct?

Surely someone has a definitive, chapter-and-verse answer to this.

thought we were talking earnings, not expenses. to different items

[Cimbian]

Originally Posted by not dead yet

thought we were talking earnings, not expenses. to different items

Agreed, earnings are not the same as expenses but what is profit if it is not an earning?

My point is that I have been given information on a paid-for course that is being shot-down here albeit without any definitive, factual references, so whom should I believe.

I agree with you on the issue of beginner courses and have-a-go sessions in as much as this is also what we have been told on the course.

It seems that covering expenses is allowed yet your comment in a previous post stated that "you cannot earn money under GNAS insurance." hence my point about profiting (aka earning) from expenses.

It does seem rather odd, though, that we have professional coaches on this forum as well as senior coaches and no one has yet put-up a factual reference to either prove or disprove.

So, how about it... anyone?

[Trunkles]

Both the Codes of Practice on the GNAS web site (for Demonstrations and Have-Gos) have the following statement at the end:

"It is important to remember that any financial gain (excluding reasonable expenses) from such
an event should be made to the subscribed club and not to an individual person. This is a
requirement of the GNAS Public Liability Insurance policy."

[Tropicalshot]

would i pay for coaching?
probably yes but it would have to be under the control of our AIS or high performance coach,
i am fortunate enough to have a coach that has over 47 years of archery experience and has seen the differing styles come and go in this time,
so if i were to pay for coaching what would i get? a complete new style that is the current trend of coaching, something to complement my current coaching form style?.
just because some one is good/top of there sport does not make them a good coach,most sports coaches never made the top but came very close.
a good coach in my opinion is one thats gets the best out of you the archer,
not all coaches agree on styles, with the exception of the basics, but even then there are differences, ie a consistant anchor, but some say side of chin where as the new(very old) trend is front of chin, (my coach was first introduced to this when he started but was unable to maintain good form with it so he was taught side of chin , 47 years ago)
i have found archery to be very open and most of the top shooters past and present will help you out if asked, but if you do not have access to a coach and you have to pay for tuition, remember its your money so shop around if you can, better to travel a futher 50 miles and get top coaching rather than save travel time and money and recieve poor.(in the long run it will cost you more)

[Cimbian]

Originally Posted by Trunkles

Both the Codes of Practice on the GNAS web site (for Demonstrations and Have-Gos) have the following statement at the end:

"It is important to remember that any financial gain (excluding reasonable expenses) from such
an event should be made to the subscribed club and not to an individual person. This is a
requirement of the GNAS Public Liability Insurance policy."

Which bears-out what we were told on the course... Does this, then, imply that the other statement made is also correct?

[napolienne]

You're both right but kind of talking at cross purposes. It is simple:

1) A coach CAN be paid expenses under the terms of GNAS insurance

2) A coach CANNOT be paid anything beyond expenses under GNAS insurance - if a coach is actually earning money rather than just covering expenses they they need insurance from a private insurer or a body like Sports Coach UK.

I can state fairly confidently that this is definitive, coming from the Coaching Development project manager at GNAS towers.

Cimbian, an expense charge is NOT an earning - it simply covers the money you would be out of pocket by if you didn't recieve it. It covers a cost you have borne, rather than paying you for a service rendered. So we're talking petrol money, travel fares, perhaps food and accomodation on overnight events, printing costs, that kind of thing. Nothing more.

[Cimbian]

Originally Posted by napolienne

1. I can state fairly confidently that this is definitive, coming from the Coaching Development project manager at GNAS towers.

2. Cimbian, an expense charge is NOT an earning - it simply covers the money you would be out of pocket by if you didn't recieve it. It covers a cost you have borne, rather than paying you for a service rendered. So we're talking petrol money, travel fares, perhaps food and accomodation on overnight events, printing costs, that kind of thing. Nothing more.

1. This is still hearsay... and therefore no different from what we were told. Where is it written?

Hearsay + Hearsay = Hearsay

2. I have not argued against expenses and as one that runs my own electronics company I do know the difference between expense and earning... My point was that PROFIT is considered an earning (ask your friendly tax inspector) and where expenses paid exceed the expenses incurred this is profit. If not then my business has been in trouble for the last four years as it hasn't made ANY profit!!!

So, business principles out of the way.

My example was clear, or so I thought. Actual cost 39p/mile vs claimed cost 40p/mile constitutes PROFIT. Perhaps the example should've used larger numbers but the principle is the same.

Given that profit = earning the definition given by yourself and Not Dead Yet suggests that we have three choices under GNAS insurance:

1. under-claim for expenses and thereby subsidise archery development in the UK
2. employ an accountant to calculate PRECISE expenses.
3. make a reasonable expense claim and risk being without insurance in the process.

1. above does not appeal to me
2. above... is the acountancy fee for this considered an expense too?
3. Hmmm!

Now, perhaps you can see why I made a simple request for a chapter-and-verse definition on the insurance to either support or disprove what I and my fellow course members have been told on a paid-for training course.

[not dead yet]

cimbian...... see what your saying now but the millage gain is for wear and tear on your car, so your still not making a profit..........

if your selfemployed you should know all this surely.

[Cimbian]

Originally Posted by not dead yet

cimbian...... see what your saying now but the millage gain is for wear and tear on your car, so your still not making a profit..........

if your selfemployed you should know all this surely.

I refer the honourable member to my previous posting (#61) in which I clearly acknowledge the wear and tear element... Hence the profit being made AFTER this has been considered.

Please do me the honour of actually reading my posts before commenting.