Need Help please....

[NoobArcher]

Can anyone shed some light for me please?
I went to Quicks to get some advice on some ACC's...I've been shooting my 1913 Easton allies for 2 seasons now, and with my 28lb bow and my 29.5inch draw length, (which means I'm actually drawing about 30lbs on the fingers at full draw!) I'm only just getting to 60y....so I wanted some ACC's. After some measuring up, I'm told,' sorry, your draw length is a bit too inconsistent, here, have a clicker instead.' Whilst I didn;t want a clicker, I appreciate the honesty and the fact that they wouldn't sell me arrows that were wrong for me, so I set to practising with the clicker. Its one of those Cavalier ones that attaches onto my sight bar. After a couple of ends, I'm getting through it no problem, so buy it and leave.
Last weekend I went to shoot at the club, and decided not to shoot a round, just shoot a few ends at 40y, 50y and 60y for practise with the clicker...again, no probs getting through it, just tiring faster as I have to hold the bow arm up for longer.
Today I went to shoot again and decided to try a national. For a start, I couldn't even get on at 60y, I was consistently low, so we had to move the clicker to wind the sight in. Wound it in 3 spaces, so as far as it can go, and I'm on....then left and off, then right and off, then high, then low.....all the while using the clicker and getting through it no problem, and, as far as I can tell, no issues with release or aim. A fair bit of wind, but I wouldn't have thought it enough to make such a difference. However, after just 3 ends my bowarm was really hurting at the shoulder, right in the front where my bra strap would lie....I'm not pinging myself with the string and it feels muscular. So I stopped....extremely peeved.
Can anyone throw some light on why I might have been so all over the place? Tbh, I think I'm in desperate need of some coaching, but our club has no coaches now, and I'm not really sure how to go about finding one!

[clickerati]

Make sure you do the intermediate course this year!

[Hidden Hippo]

Have you checked that your front shoulder is not coming up? I find that when I'm getting tired (both recurve and compound) my front shoulder begins to rise. This means that when trying to get through the clicker your rear shoulder may feel like it should have come through but because you are hunched up you're still a fair way off the clicker.

[hooktonboy]

Hi NooB,

Now I'm laughing but not at you - I often have pain in the front shoulder exactly where the bra strap would lie - although as a bloke I seldom wear one! LMP will be laughing no doubt as I've just PMd her about how close I came to a ladies recurve record yesterday!! She only suggested I wear a skirt - no-one mentioned underwear as well

I think the shoulder pain is related to the clicker usage - you're holding longer to come through and it is a bigger effort to hold the shoulder down for that length of time - and worse in the wind as you'll be pushing your sight back to the gold, maybe. I think the other factor in the "shotgun" grouping might be to do with the amount of finger pressure on the string - i.e more and perhaps variable - as you're pulling through the clicker and releasing. My groups certainly got worse before they got better. If the intermediate course that Clicki mentions does a lot of work on back tension and clicker usage (...of course it does...) then I feel sure that will help. I guess the 1913 ally's in the wind won't have helped either. Stick with it though!

[Barrythebow]

Hi Noob,

Cant you get a clicker that mounts on the riser? Eg... Bieter etc.. Saves the hassle when you move the sight bar in.
Could be a high bow shoulder, do you feel overbowed?
If your bow shoulder is rising, things get worse as the shoot progresses.

Get a friendly archer to watch over you.
ACE / ACC's will raise your sight mark a bit

[NoobArcher]

Clicki....doing the intermediate course would be lovely....but work demands that I simply cannot commit to something for a number of weeks like that....which is always going to be a problem.
I'm not sure what ' being overbowed' is, so I couldn't say whether I feel I am or not.
I would happily fork out for some decent coaching if I knew where to get some.
Thanks for the help guys....I may well be raising my front shoulder as I'm getting tired, to be honest, its hard for me to tell. I don't like to ask for help at my club simply becuase I don't like to take others away from their shooting, plus I don't really know who to ask. My other half helps as much as he is able of course...but what I would really like is some quality one to one time....but as has been said elsewhere here....its hard to come by!

[Cimbian]

Before you'll have any success with a clicker you must have a consistent and reliable anchor (sound like a catch 22?) and your clicker must be set at your draw length... not where you can set it off.

Make youself an elastic string using some nylon cord and a couple of bits of thin bungy-cord at each end.

String your bow as normal and the fit the elastic string to each limb nock.

Nock your arrow on the elastic string and practice a repeatable anchor over and over again and make sure you are not hunching towards the string.

You are looking for just a few mm of pile under the clicker each time you anchor, then aim and finish the draw... CLICK.

This will allow you to determine the correct position for your clicker; once you then apply load using the limb-weight do not move the clicker... especially forward as this is likely where the pain is coming from. The clicker does not set your form... your form sets where the clicker goes.

Once learned the movement will be smooth, quick, fluid and comfortable. Don't worry too much about aiming as your form should have you in line anyway, if it doesn't then that's another issue to look aside from draw-length.

All the other good stuff about bow shoulders etc. is important and equally valid without a clicker.

If you have the Cavalier clicker to avoid cutting your arrows then I would suggest the version that mounts between the sight block and riser as this doesn't alter when you draw your sight extension in or out.

[NoobArcher]

I always anchor to my chin...kissing the string with it touching my nose and chin. Thats how I was taught and 'cos I wear glasses when I shoot, I'm not keen on anchoring any further back, as when I've tried it previously, I always feel like I'm going to send my glasses down the range as well as the arrow.

[Tropicalshot]

Originally Posted by NoobArcher

I always anchor to my chin...kissing the string with it touching my nose and chin. Thats how I was taught and 'cos I wear glasses when I shoot, I'm not keen on anchoring any further back, as when I've tried it previously, I always feel like I'm going to send my glasses down the range as well as the arrow.

sounds like a front of chin anchor, whilst this seems to be the way that most people are being taught, with a fron of chin anchor its harder to get teh draw arm in alignment, you lose up to 1 1/4" of draw compared to a side of chin, thats alot of poundage in low poundage bows, i wear glasses and have no problem with side of chin anchor,
as for inconsistance in hitting target, welcome to archery lol
practice your form and the rest will come, you have to build up and maintain fitness/strength to be consistant.

[Flying Whale]

Originally Posted by NoobArcher

Clicki....doing the intermediate course would be lovely....but work demands that I simply cannot commit to something for a number of weeks like that....which is always going to be a problem.
I'm not sure what ' being overbowed' is, so I couldn't say whether I feel I am or not.
I would happily fork out for some decent coaching if I knew where to get some.
Thanks for the help guys....I may well be raising my front shoulder as I'm getting tired, to be honest, its hard for me to tell. I don't like to ask for help at my club simply becuase I don't like to take others away from their shooting, plus I don't really know who to ask. My other half helps as much as he is able of course...but what I would really like is some quality one to one time....but as has been said elsewhere here....its hard to come by!

It's not a substitute for a coach, but you might try and get your other half to video a few ends of shooting. Sometimes it is very instructive to watch and see just what is going on. Even without much experience you will be able to see whether your bow shoulder lifts during the shot, whether you hunch your head forward to meet the string rather than drawning back to your face etc, etc. Get sequences from a few angles.

First time I tried it I was amazed at how many things I did, and odd movements had crept in to my shot sequence. I was particularly guilty of bring my head forward to meet the string, leading to inconsistent draw length, etc. I then proceeded to simplify my shot sequence so that I had a better chance to reproducing it.