Need to share this...

[Adam]

For just about the first time, I disagree with Marcus. Tiller tuning subtly changes the angle of the grip relative to the limbs and alters the way the bow holds at full draw. It works for me, and it works for several people I shoot with.

That said, I agree completely that getting the inherent blance right - to create a stable launching platform - is very important. If the bow sits still on release, the arrow has a far better chance of coming out straight and level. As Marcu said, play with the rods and weights until the end of the long rod doesn't kick up or drop down on release.

Adam

Hi Adam,

This post has come at a good time. I have been shooting my Ultratec for a few weeks now and love it to bits, however I have developed a problem aiming! I find the sight ring floats way too much on the gold over the last few weeks. This problem sems to be getting worse. I have experimented with side weights, V-bars and long and short rods. I have even backed off tiller from the bottom limb, all to no avail. What length Beiter do you use, and waht weights do you find best?

Rich

[GeoffT]

Originally Posted by Marcus26

Balance is vital. James watched me shoot my bow and we moved weight around till it was spot on. We got it so there was no kick in any direction on release and the bow held instantly better.
The bow only weighs in at 6.75lb so it's easy to shoot.

Marcus, I have decided to take your advice and work on the static balance of the bow. A question - In James Park's book, he says hold the string by the nocking point and under the sight bar to discover the centre of mass. However in the accompanying photo he is obviously hold the string a couple of inches below the nocking point.

So far I have removed the weight at the end of my Beiter longrod and added a weight through one of the holes at the bottom of my Old Glory riser. I get a reasonable balance when holding the string 2 inches below the nocking point. But if I suspend it from the nocking point I would need a log rod facing backwards to get it to behave, and this may interfer with the string, cables and me!

I would be interested in your comments. Is it just the shape of the Old Glory riser that is causing the problems, as most of the mass of the bow is forward of the grip pressure point.

[Marcus26]

Adam: It had to happen eventually. :lol:
rgphoto: Try shortening your draw a touch. The problem with using equipment to determine how well the bow sits is that it assumes your technique is spot on to start with. While I can not judge your form, I have had people say " I can't hold my bow still so I bought ths stabilizer" and they were actually 2" too long.

I find that if my Dloop stretches 1/8th of an inch I can't hold as still. I may get an OK score, but never a great score.

GeoffT
You want to hold the string in line with the force, so above the location of the grip throat. You also need to check it to see where it is balenced in relation to the grip, which should be just in front.
As Adam said the best solution is to watch the end of the stabilizer as the shot is fired.
If the stabilizer kicks up, add more weight out the front.
If the stabilizer kicks down, you have too much.
It should stay level, move forward and then rotate downwards.

I have not shot the Old Glory properly (I have shot one but not set one up for me) hwoever my wife has.
She used a 32" Vibracheck Fat Free with no weight out the front
She also had a Vibracheck Offset bar with counter weight.
She was very happy with it's balance like that.
On her Allegiance she now has more weight in the offset.

On my Allegiance I have a 26" Fat Free with 2 additional end weights
1 Offset with counter weight.
1 rear A-Bomb Doinker

The key to remember with stabilizers is
Longer the stabilizer, the less weight on the end is required.

With the Old Glory the riser is identical to the Pro40, so also look at what setups people are using with those.
One of our shooters, Doug Currall uses a Pro40 and has shot 1369 with it.
He had a 35" Beiter, some Doinker weight at the back, and a Beiter Vbar off one side.

[Adam]

In that pic he appears to have a Sims Enhancer and no v-bar. Plus a significant Archer's Ballast under his shirt.

Rich, I'll check on the length of my Beiter rod and let you know what it is - can't actually remember, but I think it's 37 inches. In any event, I now use that and no other weight on the bow. It seems that the natural mass weight of the Ultratech, combined with my draw length and this rod, works just right for my shooting style.

Actually, this issue of neutral balance ties-in completely with a point I've made on these boards before: you can't shoot any better than you can aim. If you get the balance of the bow right, not only will it be a stable launching platform (ask any of the RAF or Navy bods about the value of that!) but it will aim well too.

Adam

[GeoffT]

Thanks Marcus, I have made some changes and will see what effect they have had this evening.

By the way, I ordered some ProPoints from Urban Archery. They arrived faster than the shafts I ordered locally. Can't wait to try them, but I think I will have to stiffen my launcher! Excellent service from Urban.

[Rik]

Originally Posted by Adam

In that pic he appears to have a Sims Enhancer and no v-bar.

If you look just to the right of the riser and just under the line of the sims thing where it attaches to the bow, you can see a yellow patch, which appears to be a Beiter short rod, in the same (vile) colour scheme as the longrod The v-bar itself is kind of lost against the riser.

Good thread.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rik

The v-bar itself is kind of lost against the riser.

You know Rik, I think you're right - and not just about the colour scheme.

Adam

[Marcus26]

you can't shoot any better than you can aim.

WORD!!! How will the arrow magically land in the middle each time if you are aiming elsewhere?

GeoffT: Glad you are happy.

Rik: Interesting you say that. It isn't my cup of tea either. However the thing at that shoot was that it was one of 3 Bowtechs there and between the orange strings, yellow stabilizer and blue SIMS thing it got more attention than any other bow. People would look right past another Pro40 and look at his. Did the promotional job perfectly.

Here is a better picture of his setup. :lol:

[geoffretired]

Hi Adam.
I liked what you said about keeping things simple. Less to go wrong!
I would like to add to the comments you, and others, have made about the weight issue. In my way of looking at shooting, the equipment used is often chosen to match certain criteria. Things like arrows matching bows etc. etc.
Often, the most vital piece of equipment is given very little consideration when the matching is being set up. Balance is important but there are other forces to put into the equation. These are too complicated for me to understand fully but I can see/feel when they are wrong and you have just been down that road too.
The archer's body is the equipment that must always get priority when matching is being considered. It is the piece you cannot upgrade for better stuff when the money comes in. It's the piece you will talk about in years to come. "I've changed bows, arrows, etc etc many times but I've shot with this..... ever since I started archery and I'm not going to change it, ever, cause I could never get a better one. there are better ones around but I'll never be able to have one like that.