Archery Interchange UK  

Go Back   Archery Interchange UK > The Shooting Line > Methodology, Tuning, Coaching etc.
Register Blogs Home Forum Directory FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Cow & Quiver archeryOrganiser Casin0 Archery on Ebay Archer's Mart DropBox PhotoBox Wiki Image Host Merchandise Bookshop

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 10:45 AM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
In the Gold
Commercial Interest
Staff Shooter
Hoyt Staff Shooter
Setup
Riser: Ultra Elite & Ultra Tec
Limbs: XT2000
Sight: Sure-Loc, Beiter
Stabilisers: Beiter & Cartel
Button:
Bow String: 452x by Newberry Strings
Arrows: Pro Tours & X7
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS
Club: Cleve Archers
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 660
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Need to share this...

Nothing remarkable really, but a salutary lesson in the need to do the simple things well.

Up until Christmas I was shooting my best indoor scores ever. However, I did have a tendency to miss the bottom spot on a Fita 18 face to the right. In January, in an attempt to correct this, I added a 4oz. counter-weight to the bow to offset the weight of the sight/sight-window. This certainly reduced the number of right-sided misses, but my scores have been down ever since and on Sunday, at Evesham, I shot my worst score for a year. (In fact all of the 5 Fita 18's I've shot in competition this year have been between 575 and 578, way down on my pre-Christmas scores). I've had the odd good round, but these have been the exception not the rule.

Last night I removed the counter-weight, then started a round with half-dozens that went 60, 59, 58, 56, 56. At this point I stopped scoring and tried to figure out why it was going so badly wrong. All of my misses were low - inside the recurve 10 but not scoring on the inner 10 - some were a bit left, some right, but ALL were low.

It took me just 3 arrows to figure it out. I was dropping my bow arm slightly as the shot went off. As soon as I began to concentrate on keeping it still, my scores leapt back up and the next 6 half-dozens went 60, 59, 60, 58, 59, 59.

I believe that the extra weight initially caused me to drop my arm on release, and that this muscle reaction became a habit so that even with the weight removed I was still doing it.

Conclusions? Well, they go like this:

1. even a small change to the bow set-up can have an effect (adverse or otherwise) on form. Although 4oz. is no big deal, I think young elastic (say, 21 year old) muscles would accept the change in mass weight no problem, but my less efficient (42 year old) muscles didn't react well - this is despite my being in the best physical shape I've seen for many a year.

2. the best equipment in the world won't compensate for poor form. Getting the shot right is worth far more points than anything else.

3. find what works for you, and stick with it until everything about the shot routine becomes ingrained. Then, when something goes wrong (as it inevitably will), you'll be able to recognise what feels wrong and know how to correct it.

Adam
Reply With Quote


  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 11:24 AM
Marcus26's Avatar
Marcus26 Marcus26 is online now
It's an X
AIUK Subscriber
Commercial Interest
Trader/Retailer
Urban Archery/Beiter
Setup
Riser: Firestorm Constitution
Limbs: Smoke
Sight: SureLoc 6x Scope
Stabilisers: 34" Doinker Elite
Button: Scott Longhorn IV Red
Bow String: Winners Choice 452x
Arrows: ProTour 470 & 2315's
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: No Affiliation
Club: Diamond Valley Archers
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Join my Fanclub!
Posts: 2,275
Thanks: 15
Thanked 90 Times in 50 Posts
Groans: 5
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Great advise Adam, glad to hear you found the cause.

I had a heap of trouble keeping my Protec from canting to the right, going to an UltraElite fixed it without the need of a counter weight. May be worth considering.
__________________
Urban Archery
Beiter Nocks
Game know game and right now you are looking kinda unfamiliar.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 11:43 AM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
In the Gold
Commercial Interest
Staff Shooter
Hoyt Staff Shooter
Setup
Riser: Ultra Elite & Ultra Tec
Limbs: XT2000
Sight: Sure-Loc, Beiter
Stabilisers: Beiter & Cartel
Button:
Bow String: 452x by Newberry Strings
Arrows: Pro Tours & X7
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS
Club: Cleve Archers
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 660
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus26
I had a heap of trouble keeping my Protec from canting to the right, going to an UltraElite fixed it without the need of a counter weight. May be worth considering.
May indeed. As it is, I'm just really focussing on keeping the bow straight, on my 3rd shot especially.

Adam
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 11:56 AM
grantwomack's Avatar
grantwomack grantwomack is offline
#15
Commercial Interest
Staff Shooter
Aardvark Archery
Setup
Riser: Axis
Limbs: G3
Sight: Sure-Loc & Titan
Stabilisers: X10
Button: Beiter
Bow String: BCY 8125, .022" Diamondback
Arrows: X10
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS
Club: Lakeside
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Don, Oxon
Posts: 1,129
Thanks: 4
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Groans: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Great advice there Adam.
I am amazed by the number of people who drop their bow arm just before or during the shot. I do the same from time to time, and until I really focus on strong and stable form, it continues to happen.
Nice shooting anyway - 584 is nothing to be disappointed with!
__________________

Pro team for Aardvark Archery
Shooting staff for Titan Scopes
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 12:54 PM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
In the Gold
Commercial Interest
Staff Shooter
Hoyt Staff Shooter
Setup
Riser: Ultra Elite & Ultra Tec
Limbs: XT2000
Sight: Sure-Loc, Beiter
Stabilisers: Beiter & Cartel
Button:
Bow String: 452x by Newberry Strings
Arrows: Pro Tours & X7
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS
Club: Cleve Archers
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 660
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by grantwomack
584 is nothing to be disappointed with!
'Tis when you're looking for 590!

Adam
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 01:55 PM
GeoffT's Avatar
GeoffT GeoffT is offline
In the Gold
AIUK Subscriber
Commercial Interest
Publisher (Archery Print)
Editor - The Glade
Setup
Riser: Hoyt 38 Ultra
Limbs: XT1000
Sight: Sureloc/Beiter scope
Stabilisers: SF longrod
Button:
Bow String:
Arrows: X10s & X7s
AIUK Ranking
Winter: Compound Division 2, 2nd Place
Summer:
Compound Division 1, 2nd Place
AIUK Live Shoots
GeoffT has completed all 6 rounds of either the Archery Interchange VGP or Winter League GeoffT has taken part in the Archery Interchange Ironman Challenge shoot
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: MB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS
Club: Chorley Bowmen
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chorley
Posts: 1,054
Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Groans: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Adam, An interesting tale. I have just read James Park's "Mastering Compound Bows". This prompts me to ask: where is the centre of mass of your bow with and without the extra weight?

Marcus, I think I have heard you mention this book. Do you consider James' comments on centre of mass important?
__________________
You're only young once, but you can be immature for as long as you wish ___________________
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 02:27 PM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
In the Gold
Commercial Interest
Staff Shooter
Hoyt Staff Shooter
Setup
Riser: Ultra Elite & Ultra Tec
Limbs: XT2000
Sight: Sure-Loc, Beiter
Stabilisers: Beiter & Cartel
Button:
Bow String: 452x by Newberry Strings
Arrows: Pro Tours & X7
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS
Club: Cleve Archers
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 660
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Without the weight on, if I put my finger directly in front of the throat of the grip it will balance beautifully. With the weight on, it's very bottom limb heavy.

I much prefer the balance without the weight, and I've never liked v-bars, so I guess I'll stick with that. It holds fantastically still over the gold and, if I make sure I keep it upright, puts the arrows exactly where I'm pointing them.

Adam
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 02:34 PM
Bald Eagle's Avatar
Bald Eagle Bald Eagle is offline
In the Gold
Commercial Interest
Coach
C.B.A.
Setup
Riser:
Limbs: Bowtech Allegiance
Sight: Copper John 2
Stabilisers: Fuse + Fuse sidestab
Button:
Bow String:
Arrows: Navigator FMJ's
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: MB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS/NFAS
Club: Priory Archers
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Yorks
Posts: 1,162
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
1/8th tiller on your top limb should correct low shots,the bow will balance better in the hand and stay level on release and you'll keep the spot on the gold easier. Honest!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 03:03 PM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
In the Gold
Commercial Interest
Staff Shooter
Hoyt Staff Shooter
Setup
Riser: Ultra Elite & Ultra Tec
Limbs: XT2000
Sight: Sure-Loc, Beiter
Stabilisers: Beiter & Cartel
Button:
Bow String: 452x by Newberry Strings
Arrows: Pro Tours & X7
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: GNAS
Club: Cleve Archers
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 660
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Eagle
1/8th tiller on your top limb should correct low shots,the bow will balance better in the hand and stay level on release and you'll keep the spot on the gold easier. Honest!
I'm a big proponent of tiller tuning. Believe me, it's been fettled about as well as it could possibly be.

The low shots aren't (in this instance) caused by tiller. Before fiddling with the weights I was averaging 585-586 for Fita 18. Hopefully, now that I've reverted to my previous set-up, the average will improve again.

Adam
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-06, 09:25 PM
Marcus26's Avatar
Marcus26 Marcus26 is online now
It's an X
AIUK Subscriber
Commercial Interest
Trader/Retailer
Urban Archery/Beiter
Setup
Riser: Firestorm Constitution
Limbs: Smoke
Sight: SureLoc 6x Scope
Stabilisers: 34" Doinker Elite
Button: Scott Longhorn IV Red
Bow String: Winners Choice 452x
Arrows: ProTour 470 & 2315's
Classifications & Affiliations
GNAS: GMB
IFAA: Unclassified
Affiliation: No Affiliation
Club: Diamond Valley Archers
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Join my Fanclub!
Posts: 2,275
Thanks: 15
Thanked 90 Times in 50 Posts
Groans: 5
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Balance is vital. James watched me shoot my bow and we moved weight around till it was spot on. We got it so there was no kick in any direction on release and the bow held instantly better.
The bow only weighs in at 6.75lb so it's easy to shoot.

I use to tiller tune when I shot round wheel bows in the early 90's but don't do it now. You are tuning out the nock travel with it by making slight changes to the timing. It has no value on single cam or binary cam bows. With my Hoyt's we measured the nock travel and got it spot on that way.
__________________
Urban Archery
Beiter Nocks
Game know game and right now you are looking kinda unfamiliar.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Tags:



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0
Archery-Interchange.com © D. Renton
Pontins | Problem Mortgage | Mortgage Loans | Car Insurance | Tenant Loans