who would stand up

[not dead yet]

who would be prepared to stand up in front (not alone ) of GNAS coaching group. and tell them exactly where they are going wrong, or what you need from coaching.

ideally this should come from MB's and above but shall we say bowmen (bowpersons) and above.

as thats where i believe the issues start.

and would you be prepared to go to lilleshall. as a group. or for your county / club. with your supporting notes

[The Meggy]

Obviously your entitled to your opinion but I'm not sure I agree there are any significant problems with the GNAS coaching group. For the majority of non-elite archers in the UK, their coaching will come via their local club coach. If there are problems at this level, I'm not sure what the coaching group could do about it. Maybe any such problems should be tackled within the club concerned. Personally I like the coaches in my club and think they do a great job. Also, I think the new "the way of the champion" DVD is excellent, and a great way for the elite archers/coaching group to reach out to the rest of the membership.

[not dead yet]

sorry the meggy i'm not talking at club level.

its the higher end of the archery fraternaty that doesn't get coached by coaches. or the very few.

what i'm looking at is why the majority of bowmen upwards are coached by non coaches.

feed back to gnas is needed.

but thats my opinion

[The Meggy]

Well I can sort of see what you mean perhaps. If you are saying that as a reasonably skilled archer, you would now like regular access to the more expert end of the coaching spectrum, then I have to agree that would be nice. However, the cost of producing such expert coaches is not inconsiderable, and then to provide them to every bowman-plus standard archer in the country is maybe just not viable. Probably there aren't close to enough coaches of the required standard in the country. I am lucky in that there is a coach at my club who's opinion I value, although I often find it is more a case of us discussing points of interest and then coming to a joint conclusion. There are, I will admit, some bad coaches about too, who should perhaps not have been able to qualify in the first place.

I would say there is a lot one can do independently too, by seeking out information from books, online, and instructional DVDs (like the new ArcheryGB one) - not to mention this forum. If we really want expert coaching though, I think we should be prepared to pay for it, and to travel to get it also. I know at least one fellow archer who has done this, and although the coaching is I'm sure not the whole story, the results speak for themselves.

[bkupris]

Originally Posted by The Meggy

If we really want expert coaching though, I think we should be prepared to pay for it, and to travel to get it also.

I think it is just a matter of time and this will be the only option available whether it be a GNAS coach or an independent.

[Shirt]

The reason that most people above a certain level are allegedly coached by unqualifieds is because a lot of the unqualifieds are good archers in their own right, and can't be ##### to put the time in jumping through hoops to get a bit of paper that means someone else thinks they're not clueless... or am I just being more cynical than usual?

I think also there's more high level archers out there that are coached by people with the bit of paper than rumour would acknowledge. Admittedly a fair few of them might have let it lapse, but they were still accredited at some point.

[PaulT]

Originally Posted by Shirt

The reason that most people above a certain level are allegedly coached by unqualifieds is because a lot of the unqualifieds are good archers in their own right, and can't be ##### to put the time in jumping through hoops to get a bit of paper that means someone else thinks they're not clueless... or am I just being more cynical than usual?

.

Couldn't have put it better myself

[Bald Eagle]

I think there is an issue here that has gone on for too long! IMHO, archers who want to coach should have been in the sport a minimum of 5 years. The club archer who wants to improve usually goes and seeks advice from the top archer in his club 'cos the "coach" hasn't been there, done it and got the badges like the top archer. When you have "coach" sewn on your shirt you are expected to know everything about all bows, how to set them up and get results for the archer! If you want to coach it's in your own interest to learn about different set ups, tuning, bows, one to one coaching, etc,etc. There are people out there only too willing to help. There is a kind of "snobbery" in the higher echelons of coaching where the only way is their way and that is the best way. I've known a lot of top archers who have gone to Lilleshall to be coached leave the sport because everything was wrong with their shooting!! These guys were GMB, how can you change a GMB's style, why would you, I've always said you have to assess the individual and work on what's best for him, no two people are the same, unless you are Korean!!

[grimsby archer]

Originally Posted by Bald Eagle

IMHO, archers who want to coach should have been in the sport a minimum of 5 years. !!

That kind of limit will probably take out a high percentage of candidate coaches. I agree there should be a minimum level of experience to be a candidate coach, but theoretically the coach assessments should enforce that level of experience. In practise, that is just not happening, or the standard is too low.

We also have to remember that there are several levels of coach for very good reason. It is not reasonable to expect ALL coaches to be MBs, capable of coaching MB will 5 years of experience. The Level1 coaches are expected to teach beginners AND NOT GMBs!!!!!
Coaches have to start somewhere. Coaching is a skill, like shooting the bow. We learn as beginners, develop that skill, hopefully with the aid and assistance of more experienced people. Some never improve.


Other than being constantly told how ALL GNAS COACHES ARE CRAP - which is evidently not true, because I'm not crap,
my biggest bugbear as a qualified coach of some years is the lack of support for coaches within the coaching system.
As a coach I would like to tell GNAS that I crave greater opportunity to develop and improve my skills as a coach. Most coaches get NO support at all and are left to "get on with it". Apart from the once a year, massively oversubscribed national coaching conference, the opportunity to work with and learn from more experienced coaches and higher quality archers IS NON EXISTANT.

Coaching should filter down from the top. Peter Suk should be teaching/working with the national coaches who should be passing the knowledge, skills and techniques down the tree to the regionals, county, club and level1 coaches.
Until this happens, the standard of coaching in this country WILL NOT IMPROVE other than in a piecemeal fashion.

So to answer NDY's question, I would be prepared to stand up infront of GNAS coaching group and tell them what I need from coaching as a coach. Anyone want to join me?

[Murray]

Lets keep it on topic and not turn this into yet another "GNAS coaches are great" or "GNAS coaches are cr*p" thread... please?. Pretty please?

GA has at least answered the question!

I wouldn't but then in the last year I have been coached by up to 5 different GNAS coaches and a couple of non-GNAS coaches, and feel my needs are adequately met within the skills of the individuals concerned. My issue is sometimes too many varying ideas which I then have to filter out and make my own best judgment of what is and isnt appropriate.

One of the GNAS coaches I work with is also the National Coaching Officer (Education) and I'm sure he'd be willing to discuss the proposals for obtaining and coordinating feedback from the membership in the form of a coaching review.