It's a big ask

[tel]

All of this is becoming more and more interesting (or significant?) of late - in particular since I took up clicker usage recently....I have far more 'twitchy' moments than I ever had before. Symptomatic of problems to come? Or, am I in danger of talking myself into it?

[geoffretired]

Tel, are you getting twitchy at any particular stage in the shot sequence?
As you say, this is getting interesting. Thanks for your input.

[Deadeye Doc]

Originally Posted by Shirt

BT releases are great. I can now more or less shoot a trigger release, although I haven't done so since the indoor season. Last outing with it was an evening shooting at a Portsmouth face, where I stuck my first two arrows in the red due to not having a sight mark and then kept them in the gold thereafter. Not many tens, but hey, I can live with it...

It takes a lot of time, practice, and willpower, I think. There are occasions when I'll be at full draw for half a minute or so because the release won't go and I WILL NOT punch it. These shots usually result in me coming down before I pass out...

This is interesting. I used to be a very good golfer and heard so many of my golfing partners talking about the "yips" which were probably the same as TP. They (the Yips) related simply to putting which after whacking the little white pill with some skill at a large target, meant getting extremely delicate with the same pill and finessing it into a miniscule hole.
In a previous existence I read a book called "Golf in the Kingdom" all about the "inner game" and being able to access the feeling of being "in the zone" at will. Herrigel's book "Zen in the Art of Archery" is essentially discussing the same phenomenon some forty or fifty years earlier. The ingress of sports psychology into tennis was my first intrduction to learning to "trust" your body to hit the right shot. Both McKenroe and Connors were taught this by their coaches.
Herrigel describes the Zen master teaching him to unlearn conscious shooting and allowing the shot to be made unconsciously. Last year at the Leeds Armouries Kyudo was being demonstrated and in Rick McKinney's book there is a description of some aspects of Kyudo in which if I remember he strives to achieve the same state. It was informative to see the Kyudo archers.
I have to say if I become overconscious of trying to score rather than allowing myself to shoot the shot, I do not "shoot" as well as I know I can. Being in the zone is wonderful when it happens, and something that if achieved, ought to overcome TP. If I become conscious of the struggle to draw the bow mechanically inevitably something goes wrong, and I learn to shoot badly and begin to panic.
I'm not sure if this helps?

[geoffretired]

Deadeye Doc, it certainly helps. Building up the information from as many sources as possible is what this thread is all about. Your input shows that other sports have equivalent difficulties. The reasons may be similar too. Is it poor teaching or too high expectations or too much to handle all at once?
Your use of subconscious and over conscious is intriguing.

[Marcus26]

Developed it as a junior when I was 13 thanks to a poorly designed release aid (a fletchmatic wrsit release) and no coaching. Scores fell from 1340 to about 1300 for our intermediate FITA. All the other kids had it also as we all used the same gear (few options back in the late 80's)
My dad put a spring on my release instead of a trigger. This was horrible and made things worse. I now understand why.
Got hold of a Stanislawski release aid, no one else was shooting one, but I believed the hype that it couldn't be punched. Took it, and only it to a 2 day FITA and shot 1180's (Ladies FITA, shooting up a division) and finished last.
A few months later I had it figured out and TP beaten and shot 1400 Intermediate in practise. Never looked back.
All the other kids in my division at the time quit within a year because of TP.

I now know why I developed it, it's because I was not taught strongly enough how to use the release correctly.

[tel]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Tel, are you getting twitchy at any particular stage in the shot sequence?
As you say, this is getting interesting. Thanks for your input.

As I said I've noticed it since taking to the clicker - maybe because before it was only me deciding the timing of the shot? I think I'm borderline letting the clicker 'trigger' the loose, which is what I don't want. So when it clicks I start to loose - ie twitch - then manage not to, and the shot falls apart. I also have a problem coming down if I'm already commited to the shot, so on most of the occasions this happens it'll result in 'twitch - twitch again - loose (badly)'. Just for fun a new element was added to this situation on Sunday at DCAS Grand day - The clicker (magnetic) was sticking - so I was reaching full draw, pulling through, pulling some more 'til it hurt, shifting my attention to the clicker only to find I'd already past it and it was still stuck out! Oh, what larks!
Fortunately this is, so far, only an occasional problem - the rest of the time I'm happy with the smoothness of the sequence. Obviously I'd rather iron it out than let it become more frequent so I'll continue to monitor this thread and see what comes out of it.

[Shirt]

Originally Posted by tel

I think I'm borderline letting the clicker 'trigger' the loose, which is what I don't want.

Why don't you want it?

[tel]

Originally Posted by Shirt

Why don't you want it?

I knew someone would ask that, quick too!
I have read lots of opinions of what the clickers job is, and prefer the 'draw length check' over the 'click,loose regardless' argument. It suits me as long as I'm somewhere on gold at the time, if I'm not I don't want to be loosing.

[Shirt]

OK. And you know for absolute certain that when you're hanging about at full draw after the clicker has gone that your draw length isn't changing?

[Marcus26]

The only way a clicker can be a draw length check is if you release at teh moment it goes click.
It's no coincidence that there is a direct relation between how well you use your clicker (ie how quick you are to release and how fast you move through it) and how well you score.
If you are going 'click' and then waiting till you are aiming at the middle, you will never be any good (sorry, but it's true)