A good coach....

[Cakemeister]

I'd also be interested to know how succesfully coaches feel they can teach cross all archery disciplines. It would appear that a coach is expected to understand longbow, recurve & compound- and presumeably the different techniques for target, clout, field etc. Most people have a preferred specialism so how well do they cope when asked to teach an area which they don't shoot themselves?

Pete

[Furface]

The elements of archery can be divided into those that are common to all disciplines, and those that are discipline specific. The common elements, which tend to be the human ones (biomechanics, psychology, etc) or physics (effect of force on arrows, etc)can be learned irrespective of experience with specific types of archery. In fact, it is probably true to say that they can be learned sufficient to coach archery to a high standard without even having been an archer. Specific elements will tend to centre around the use of equipment. Here there are two routes to being able to coach, of which the obvious one is direct experience. The other route is via observation and enquiry; it is possible to understand how a compound bow operates differently from a recurve by being told and seeing the brute in action; it is also possible to understand how an archer is using the equipment, and being affected by it, by observation and asking the archer. In both cases, so long as there is an underlying understanding of the common elements, and a willingness to learn and react, there is no reason why a coach only experienced in one discipline cannot coach in another discipline. Nor can you only coach to your own level of accomplishment or experience, indeed, in many sports, you see the best coaches are often those who did not stand out as participants.

[Barry C]

I can see a strong cross connection with recurve and compound, but surely the others are totally alien unless you have some specialist knolege? I cant see longbow form being remotely similar to shooting an olympic bow?

[English Bowman]

I'm sorry Barry, but I don't agree with you there. You could argue that an Olympic bow is closer to a longbow than a compound, for instance;
A longbow, and a recurve both increase in weight the further you draw, a compound lets off, this makes a dramatic difference to the feel of the shot.
A longbow and a recurve are both shot with fingers, compound archers tend to use release aids.
A compound can use a peep and scope, these are not allowed in any other discipline.
A compound can use an overdraw, this is not allowed with a recurve or longbow
A compound can use a spirit level; this is not allowed with a recurve or longbow

I personally see archery styles as a line with Longbow at one end and compound unlimited at the other, American Flatbow, Mongolian style recurves, modern recurves with and without sights and compound barebow and limited are all points along that line. Take a look at this quote.

"Standing, knocking, drawing, holding, loosing, whereby cometh fair shooting, which neither belong to wind nor weather, nor yet to the mark; for in a rain and at no mark, a man may shoot a fair shoot." Toxophilus : Roger Ascham : 1548

I think that the above comment can be applied to shooting any bow; it's all just variations on a theme.

Cross discipline coaching working depends on the level that you are coaching at.

You can teach any style at the beginner/intermediate level, there are some differences in techniques needed to shoot well in different bows but these are small and easy to understand.
I coach all disciplines, and have had archers win county golds with longbow, recurve barebow, and Olympic recurve, and silver with a compound.
I will not coach to a higher level than county standard as I feel that after that I am holding the archer back. Once an archer makes it to the county squad, I pass them onto another coach.

I feel that once someone has reached county level they need a specialist coach who understands the specific problems and techniques of that particular style to take them any further.

Having said all that, I do accept that there are some coaches who do not understand these small differences in style. These coaches either teach everybody the style that they (the coach) are comfortable with, (usually Olympic) no matter what bow is being used, or refuse to teach any other discipline
I don't have problems with coaches refusing to teach the unfamiliar styles, as long as they point the archer in the direction of another coach who can help them, but I think that those coaches who think that the bow makes no difference at all to the technique used are in need of a refresher course.

Daniel

[Barry C]

It is my understanding that recurve and compound form are identicle apart from the use of a release aid. The bow arm is the same as is the alignment and back use.</p>

I wasn't referring to bow mechanics, but biomechanics and movement of your body.</p>

Seems longbow archers have to grip the bow, no holding, bent arm, unless all the photo i see they are doing it wrong? I read that holding with a longbow is asking for it to break. Also how can you expand with a longbow? Recurve and compound with BT can.</p>

[Furface]

There ar emany longbow archers who use the "holding will make the bow break" reason to excuse their snap shooting (and poor scores). It's a question of knowing your equipment. You cannot hold a longbow for as long as the other types, but you can still hold, so long as you do it for a consistent time, as the poundage is slipping as you hold. Once you take that on, the only real difference in technique is keeping hold of the bow on release, either by gripping or catching. Back tension, expansion and all the rest are there.

[Barry C]

Thats a very interesting post and food for thought.

[English Bowman]

I have to agree with Furface here

The biomechanics and movement of your body of shooting are similar in all styles.

Barry, you are right in suggesting that you have a different grip (I hate that term but can't think of a better one at the moment) with the longbow, but the bow hand should be relaxed and only holding the bow lightly, not gripping it tightly, just like shooting a recurve without a sling.

As for expansion, the method that I teach for longbow is to draw smoothly to anchor, aim as the string comes back to the face, slow the draw down to a crawl, (as if pulling through a clicker) then confirm the aim and loose. Similar to recurve, but without the exaggerated hold that most archers use with a recurve.
You can hold a longbow for as long as a recurve, and the top longbowman in Hampshire shoots with a style identical to a recurve archer, this shortens the life of the bow though, and shouldn't be encouraged amongst longbow archers. The best way to shoot in the longbow in my opinion, is with a hold of 1 or 2 seconds, no more. Snap shooting though is just as bad, as Furface pointed out, and it is better for results to hold consistantly longer than is good for the bow, than rush the shot and snap shoot.

As for the bent arm, I prefer shooting recurve with a slight bend to the bow arm, it gives better string clearance, and archers using this method are less likely to suffer from tendonitis. I emphasise the word, slight, it's more of a turn of the arm that twists the elbow out of the way than a true bend in the arm.
(I know that this method also has it's disadvantages, and it's up to individual archers to decide which to use, but I would rather they start with the method least likely to cause injury, long or short term)

[Cakemeister]

"Standing, knocking, drawing, holding, loosing, whereby cometh fair shooting, which neither belong to wind nor weather, nor yet to the mark; for in a rain and at no mark, a man may shoot a fair shoot." Toxophilus : Roger Ascham : 1548

I want to be coached by this guy. He must have racked up a hell of a lot of experience by now..

Pete

[English Bowman]

If Dr. Who ever offers me a ride in the TARDIS I'd love to meet Ascham. He led a very interesting life. He wrote Toxophilus whilst he was Princess Elizabeth's (later Queen Elizabeth I) private tutor, and was granted a pension of £10 a year for the rest of his life by King Henry VIII. (Who we know was a keen longbowman, and reputedly very good) Is this a case of an early professional archery coach?

Daniel