A good coach....

[Little Miss Purple]

I've heard various people talking about how well they have improved by having a coach, I'd like to know what people think about coaching and if they get it from specific people or if it is a general thing at club level. Also within this what is a reasonable cost that would be expected to pay for coaching?

I apologise now if this question is in the wrong section!! Thanks in advance...

[Furface]

Depends what you mean by coaching!
Most members at most clubs will give advice - ranging from excellent to positively dangerous - and most archers will eventually sift out the bits they like. Sometimes, an individual member will work with another on a specific bit of technique, but, when that is over, move on. Some people think of either of those as coaching; that happens at most clubs, and can be beneficial. It is certainly a very good way to move from Beginner to Improver. But this is really training rather than coaching
Coaching with a Coach is different, though. Both Archer and Coach are committed to working together for a long period, with the intention of helping the Archer reach her goals. They plan together - technique sessions, tournaments, diaries, fitness etc etc - and work together, sometimes quite intensely. In other words, it is a close working partnership to which both parties are committed. Of course, the goals might be anything from International archery to being able to group at 40 yards. When archers write of the benefits of working with a coach, this is probably what they mean. And it is terrifically rewarding for both sides.
As for cost, many coaches working at a club will do it for the love of it. However, there may be times when it is polite to offer expenses ("Come with me to my first tournament"). It may be that paying for coaching will become more common, as the emphasis on finance turns to development. And it would alter the balance of the relationship.
So first have some idea of what your goals might be; then approach a couple of coaches to see who suits you and your aims best. Then go for it

[Marcus26]

To me a good coach must

Be a good shooter. There are many coaches who are failed archers. Unless they have a string of 1300 students, I'ld be careful.
Understand Biomechanics. This is the key to good coaching
Understand competition pressure. How can they teach you to win, if they never have?
Encourage communication with others. Many coaches are protective and will often try to stop students dealing with higher end coaches. This is rubbish and does nothing for the archer.
Explain things. They can't teach you if you have no idea what or why you are doing something.

[English Bowman]

Marcus26 - 27/7/2005 1:45 AM
To me a good coach must

Be a good shooter. There are many coaches who are failed archers. Unless they have a string of 1300 students, I’d be careful.

I disagree here. A coach must be able to shoot, but be good, no. I would say that many very good coaches are comparatively poor archers. How can you be a good shot without practice? If you are dedicated to coaching, where is the time to practice going to come from?
Before becoming a coach I was a reasonable shot with a recurve, and a good one with a longbow, now I am reasonable with the longbow, and below average with the recurve. Does this make me a poor coach because I don't achieve top scores or a better coach because I am prepared to sacrifice my own shooting for others?

Understand Biomechanics. This is the key to good coaching

True

Understand competition pressure. How can they teach you to win, if they never have?

Again, No you don't need to have won competitions to coach.
Using that argument you can say that a coach must have had bad technique at some point, after all how can someone understand what it's like to suffer from bad form if they never have?
The answer is by reading, and talking to people who have had the experiences above, that way you should be able to understand, and pass that knowledge on.

Encourage communication with others. Many coaches are protective and will often try to stop students dealing with higher end coaches. This is rubbish and does nothing for the archer.

I couldn't agree more there, and would add that as a coach you need to know your limitations. I like to think that I am a good club coach. I have helped many archers achieve county standard, but once they reach that level I direct them to other coaches who are more experienced in teaching at a higher level.

Explain things. They can't teach you if you have no idea what or why you are doing something.

Absolutely, and not only explain them, but be able to explain them in different ways according to who they are coaching. I will teach an adult in a different way to a child for instance.

[Barry C]

I agree with Marcus. He also has the experience of working within the Australian structure, which GNAS should marvel at.</p>

I feel what you call a good coach, and what Marcus calls a good coach are possible at two different ends of the coaching spectrum. Not your fault, its just the extremely poor system we have here.</p>

[secbridarchers]

I agree with so many of the things said by different members here. Perhaps instead of club coaches they should be referred to as "Instructors" and GNAS courses should be Instructors Courses for Clubs. After all basically they would be taking a novice and teaching them the basics of archery from which they would either give up or carry on depending on their abilities. If they carry on at club level as also mentioned then more experienced archers within the club give help and assistance to those on what could be called the second level, which as also mentioned could be good or bad but we all seem to do what we are comfortable with. For the minority, and it is a minority, of archers who then go on to shoot for county or country, or just with lots of ambition that is when they need to seek out a "Coach." We are talking about two entirely different things aren't we, learning to shoot archery at a basic level which a vast number of club members are happy with and being helped to achieve and excel in archery. Also we must not forget that "Club Coaches" give up their own archery for a lot of the year to encourage people into the sport which I think is only to be highly commended.

[Little Miss Purple]

We've actually had some coaching tonight at Aire Valley (Skipton) - I'm totally useless with names but 1 was Shaun, a county coach; the other David, a club coach. We shot at 20 yds (a couple shot at @35), the aim was to focus on technique and not specifically hitting the gold or grouping.

On the occasions that we were told to alter something we were told the theory behind it and how it would affect our shot, to me this makes sense and the change can be made reasonably easy.

The thing I don't like is when someone walks up to you and tells you that you are doing something wrong and that you should change it. By the end of last week I felt so despondant about my equipment I told Guy I wasn't going to shoot again until I had the correct gear as 'everyone' had been saying. I went to Custom Archery on Monday morning where Lez & Neil gave me a talking too!! I knew in my heart of hearts that the only thing wrong with my equipment is me and my lack of experience, after 4 months of shooting I am not going to be on target at 80yds after attempting it 4 times (2 long nationals, 1 albion - competition and 1 long warwick).

I left the shop for the 2nd week running without having spent a penny, I headed straight for the archery range where I went on to shoot a hereford / bristol and achieve a 1st class score.

I guess what I am trying to say is that most people want to help you but many do not, it's about finding the right coach for you, someone you trust and respect and in my opinion want to emulate as an archer.

[English Bowman]

The lowest level of coach grade in GNAS used to be known as "Instructor" This was slightly less than the new level 1 coach. The reason that this was dropped and all instructors encouraged to become coaches was to gain funding from the government who would give grants to sports coaches, but not to instructors. Money is why we don't have the instructor grade anymore.
I think that re-introducing the instructor grade would be a good thing, but it won't happen. People need to understand what each level of coach means, and I don't think that is clear. (For the record I would consider myself a level 2 coach, but am just plain coach, before the levels were introduced)

[Cakemeister]

Good for Lez & Neil also- a severe case of integrity there- sending you off twice without spending money!!

So when are you ready to become a coach? I've helped out at beginners courses (you're not reading this Furface) and one or two club members have dropped heavy hints. I'm interested- but I believe I need a lot more experience. How much do you need?

Pete

[English Bowman]

It used to be 2 years shooting experiance before taking a coaching exam, I'm not sure what it is now.
The important thing is to realise what coaching will do to your own shooting.
Once you take up coaching your time at the club is no longer your own, and you will not be able to practice as you do now. Your own shooting will suffer and you will not be able to compete at the level that you would otherwise be capable of. You must be prepared to accept this before becoming a coach.

The other thing to consider is what level do you want to coach at. You need to start at the bottom, which is club coach, teaching beginners, and intermediate shots. Do you want to take it further and coach future champions? If so you have a long hard path ahead of you, and I admire you for it. I am happy as a club coach, and will help people up to county standard, that's enough for me.

As for how good do you need to be as an archer to coach, that is another argument altogether. I believe that your understanding of technique, anatomy and teaching methods is more important than your abillity to hit the 10 ring, and that you do not need to be a good shot to be a good coach. I know that there are others here who feel differently. When I was shooting competitively I got to the stage where I could beat my coach easily, but he continued to help me improve to a level way above that which he had achieved, he was a good coach, yet not a top archer.

I hope my ramblings here are of some help, if you want more details of what's involved feel free to ask any questions, and I'll do my best to answer them

Daniel